From Assistant Store Manager to CEO: The Journey of Matt Darin in the Cannabis Industry Karson Humiston had the pleasure of interviewing Matt Darin, the CEO of Curaleaf, the largest public cannabis company in the United States. They recorded this episode live at MJBizCon, one of the biggest cannabis conferences in the industry.
In this episode of the "Proud to Work in Cannabis" podcast, Karson Humiston had the pleasure of interviewing Matt Darin, the CEO of Curaleaf, the largest public cannabis company in the United States. They recorded this episode live at MJBizCon, one of the biggest cannabis conferences in the industry.
Matt shared his journey into the cannabis industry, starting back in 2014 when he read about Illinois passing a medical cannabis law in the newspaper. Intrigued by the potential of the industry, Matt and his partners decided to apply for licenses to open dispensaries in Illinois. Despite facing challenges and uncertainties, they successfully opened three stores in 2016 under the Greenhouse brand.
From there, Matt and his team saw the opportunity to expand and become vertically integrated. They acquired a cultivation license and expanded into other states like Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. Eventually, their business caught the attention of Curaleaf, and they decided to join forces. Matt stayed on as a regional president before becoming the CEO of Curaleaf in May 2022.
During our conversation, Matt emphasized the importance of resilience in the cannabis industry. He shared stories of the early days when they would only see 15 patients in a 10-hour day and how they had to navigate the challenges of a pilot program and an unsupportive governor. Matt also highlighted the need for employees to have a genuine interest in the cannabis plant and the industry, as it is a unique and ever-evolving business.
They discussed the scrappy and entrepreneurial spirit that has been ingrained in the cannabis industry since its early days. Matt emphasized the importance of maintaining that culture even as companies grow larger and face new challenges. He shared a recent example of how his team mobilized to reverse a potentially damaging decision by a regulatory agency in New Jersey, showcasing the power of a united and determined workforce.
Looking ahead to 2024, Matt expressed optimism for the industry's future. He mentioned upcoming state-level catalysts, such as the launch of the adult-use market in New York and the potential growth of the European market, particularly in Germany. Matt also highlighted the importance of hiring top talent and encouraged listeners to explore the job opportunities available at Curaleaf.
Overall, this episode provided valuable insights into the journey of building a successful cannabis business and the qualities that make employees thrive in the industry. Matt's story serves as an inspiration for those looking to enter or advance their careers in cannabis.
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:10 - Introduction to the podcast episode
00:00:26 - Discussion about attending MJBizCon
00:01:06 - Matt Darin's decision to get involved in the cannabis industry
00:02:05 - The early days of starting a cannabis business
00:03:56 - Opening the first dispensaries in Illinois
00:06:49 - The acquisition of Grassroots by Curaleaf
00:08:09 - Matt Darin joining the Curaleaf team and becoming CEO
00:10:00 - Traits that make employees successful in the cannabis industry
00:12:32 - Advancement opportunities and common threads among successful employees
00:14:13 - The most challenging experience in the cannabis industry
00:16:47 - Maintaining a scrappy and entrepreneurial culture in a growing company
00:18:19 - Optimism and hopes for the cannabis industry in 2024
00:20:47 - Advice for Matt Darin's past self in 2013
00:22:20 - Conclusion and appreciation for the partnership with Vangst
QUOTES
"I'm doing great. How are you?" - 00:00:26
"Yeah, I think this is number 10." - 00:00:31
"I was thinking back to 2014 when I was here for my first MJBizCon." - 00:00:31
"I had to be involved from the ground floor." - 00:01:06
"We got to apply for these licenses. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity." - 00:01:42
"It was immediately fascinating and just the excitement about kind of being part of this new industry that was just developing was really unique." - 00:03:08
"I remember working a 10-hour day in our dispensary where we might see literally 15 patients in 10 hours." - 00:05:14
"The number one trait that I look at is resilience." - 00:10:26
"I think it is somebody that is interested in being very knowledgeable about the cannabis plant and the industry that we're in and the consumer and that." - 00:13:35
"I call it the entrepreneurial spirit and it's something that I have." - 00:17:54
Karson Humiston: Hey everybody, and welcome to our first episode of a live Proud to Work in Cannabis podcast. We are coming to you from MJBiz. So excited to have Matt Darin, the CEO of CuraLeap, with me for our first ever live podcast. How are you?
Matt Darin: I'm doing great. How are you?
Karson Humiston: I'm good. You were just telling me this is, what, your 10th MJBiz?
Matt Darin: Yeah, I think this is number 10. I was thinking back to 2014 when I was here for my first MJBizCon, which was back at the Rio Convention Center. So not quite at the big convention center like it is now, but a very, very different conference than it is today.
Karson Humiston: Well, that's a perfect segue into why did you decide to go to MJBizCon in 2014? For people that don't know your story, I'd love to just learn what possibly came over you that you said, I'm going to go to a cannabis conference in 2014.
Matt Darin: Yeah, so I was born and raised in Chicago and had done a few different things in my career, but had a commercial real estate investment company in Chicago with a couple partners. We were a few years into that. And in August of 2013, I was literally reading the Chicago Tribune newspaper. when I read that Illinois had passed a medical cannabis law. And I, you know, was a longtime believer in the cannabis plant and, you know, really kind of thought it was going to continue to be better understood and go more mainstream over time. And so I had to be involved from the ground floor.
Karson Humiston: So you read the paper, you decide you have to be involved, what are the next steps? I think so many people want to start businesses or want to get involved and they look at someone like you and they think, man, how did he get from reading the paper to being the CEO of the largest public cannabis company in the United States? Take us to the early days, what did you actually do?
Matt Darin: Yeah, so it was not predicting that I would be here today for sure when we first got into it. So, yeah, so saw the opportunity. You know, Illinois was kind of the first of its kind running a merit-based process to apply for licenses for 20 cultivation licenses and 60 dispensary licenses. I went to my partners in our real estate business and said, we got to apply for these licenses. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Let's go figure this out just like it's another real estate deal that we were already doing. One of the partners was very skeptical and said, this is illegal and we have investors and lenders. I said, don't even go there. Another one was a little more cynical about some of the Chicago politics and things that were going to be involved in getting the licenses. But I said, let's give it a shot. Go spend time doing due diligence. So we did that. Went out to Colorado a bunch, California, Arizona, markets that were already legal. Did the homework and ultimately put together applications. And we're fortunate to get three of the original dispensaries in Chicago.
Karson Humiston: And the name of that business was Grassroots?
Matt Darin: That original business was Greenhouse, so we operated our first three stores in Illinois under the Greenhouse brand, which wasn't the most original, but we liked it.
Karson Humiston: But at the time, it might have been original.
Matt Darin: Yeah, maybe a little bit more than it is today. Yeah, so we jumped in. We got three of the original licenses and basically went and did all the work to go lock down the real estate, get them built, get the stores open, the teams trained. I was the assistant manager at one of our stores, which was a hundred miles round trip from my house. So it was definitely a serious addition to my day job that I already had working in commercial real estate. But it was immediately fascinating and just the excitement about kind of being part of this new industry that was just developing was really unique.
Karson Humiston: So what year was that when these three dispensaries opened up? just to give people a frame of reference.
Matt Darin: Yeah, so the licenses were awarded in September of 2014. It took some time, just like all these processes. There was some litigation and things like that that slowed some things down. We ultimately opened our first stores in January of 2016.
Karson Humiston: So January of 2016, you open your first stores. Describe that first year to us. You're literally the assistant store manager. What was that first year like?
Matt Darin: Oh, it was interesting. It's looking back at, you know, how Illinois kind of spawned many of the largest, most successful cannabis companies in the U.S. and I guess the world today. I think it's no accident, you know, kind of based on where everything started from. It was really, really tough those first few years. You know, Illinois, It was a pilot program. It was a temporary law. We had a governor that was not friendly to the law at all. We had sleepless nights legitimately wondering whether the medical program would even get renewed or we would lose our entire investment and have to shut down operations. Fortunately, that didn't happen, but it was not easy. I remember working a 10-hour day. in our dispensary where we might see literally 15 patients in 10 hours. A patient would walk in and we would cheer and just be so excited to have somebody coming in.
Karson Humiston: 15 patients in 10 hours.
Matt Darin: Yeah, that's what it was like in the early days. I mean, it was really, you know, the medical conditions that allowed you to get a medical card, you had to be half dead to get a card, basically. And so it was not easy. But I think that's a lot of what gave us the backbone to be able to, you know, really grow over time.
Karson Humiston: And so then after 2016, you got through some of these hard times. Can you keep walking us through your story and how the business evolved?
Matt Darin: Sure. So as we got in, we saw the opportunity. We applied for one of the original cultivation licenses. They only issued 20. We did not get one of the original ones, but we ended up acquiring one pretty quickly thereafter from a group that needed to bring in a partner. And so immediately the focus was, let's get vertically integrated. That was a unique opportunity that we saw long-term that we felt was going to be the position of strength that you needed to have. And so we ended up getting a growth facility set up in central Illinois. And then Maryland came about as the next state that was issuing another similar process, issuing limited licenses to grow and process and dispense. We ended up applying there and were successful to get all those licenses. moved into Maryland and then quickly thereafter more states started happening. And so Maryland, Pennsylvania and then Ohio came pretty much back to back and we were fortunate to win licenses in all those states and be able to kind of be part of the first movers in each of those markets.
Karson Humiston: Now I want to get to Cureleaf of course, but I want to finish this part of your journey. In some way your business is acquired. Can you talk to us about that journey?
Matt Darin: Sure, yeah. So the business, we ended up creating Grassroots and that was the company that we developed and based out of Chicago and really focused more on the eastern part of the country, major markets, Illinois and Pennsylvania and Maryland and a handful of others. And we were happy running our business out of Chicago, doing well, continuing to grow into new markets. We woke up one day and had 1,200 employees and licenses in 12 states. It was really growing exponentially. That was around the time in 2018-19 when companies were going public, U.S. companies and Canada, and we were looking at the outlook saying, you know, what is the future here? How do we continue to grow and raise capital and be able to compete as the market was continuing to mature? It's a very capital-intensive business, being a multi-state operator, building out-growth facilities and dispensaries. And so we looked around the landscape. We considered going public up in Canada and kind of went through that process. We ended up meeting up with the Curaleaf team and really kind of saw a natural fit for us to work together.
Karson Humiston: So you, Curaleaf acquires your business and you go and join the Curaleaf team and then at some point we all woke up to the announcement that you were the CEO. So can you talk to us about how that came about?
Matt Darin: Yeah, so we ended up, after a long, arduous process, closing the transaction in July of 2020.
Karson Humiston: Right in the pandemic.
Matt Darin: Right in the pandemic, so interesting times to work through closing a major transaction. Zoom, you had to download Zoom. Yes, a lot of remote meetings and meeting a lot of new colleagues over the internet, which was not easy.
Karson Humiston: And I want to get to your thoughts on remote work when we get to your CureLeaf time.
Matt Darin: Sure, yeah. So that's a hot topic. Hot topic. So yeah, so we ended up closing in July 2020. I stayed on in a management role with CureLeaf as a regional president overseeing the central part of the country, which was much of the grassroots assets. And I really wanted to stay involved. I mean, I love being part of the operations of the cannabis business. You know, just had a great team that we were bringing on from grassroots and a lot of amazing people at Cureleaf that I was starting to meet and work with and I wanted to be involved. So I stayed on in that role. I ended up relocating to Florida during the pandemic to oversee the Southeast for Curaleaf as well, which was an exciting new opportunity. That was kind of the biggest market that we were pushing into, opening a lot of new stores, building out capacity, and really making a bigger move into that market. So it was kind of a fun new challenge to go move my family to Florida and focus on that. And then ultimately, you know, moved into the CEO role in May of 2022. So, yeah, it's been… Had your one-year anniversary. Yeah, so it's been a year and a half now, and yeah, the fun is never ending in cannabis. It's definitely challenges abound, but I still get excited waking up every morning just with being able to try to create this playbook that nobody's ever fully created yet.
Karson Humiston: So this podcast is called the Proud to Work in Cannabis Podcast and the majority of the people that listen to it are current employees in the industry or people that want to get into the industry. And so for you, you're hiring tens of thousands of people every single year. What do you think is the number one thing that employees have, what about them makes them successful in your business? So when you look to hire, what are you looking for in the people that you hire?
Matt Darin: The number one trait that I look at is resilience. I think it's not always easy to screen for in an interview process, but when we're talking to candidates and talking to potential new team members, especially ones that do not have industry experience, those that have been in the industry, I think understand some of the unique challenges and what it takes getting knocked down. most days and having to pick yourself back up and just some of the unique nuances of this industry. But for those that are new, I have found that while many have been successful, and it's certainly very, very possible, and we have a lot of great stories of people that have come from other industries, until you're in it, you do not understand how difficult it can be given the state-by-state nature of the business, all the regulatory and compliance dynamics, the fact that you're running a whole business of agriculture and manufacturing and food processing and retail stores. It's a very unnatural business model that we run, but that's the challenge.
Karson Humiston: And I think about someone like you, you were literally working 10-hour days as an assistant manager when 15 patients came in. And so I think like so many people out there, everyone's like an overnight success, right? So people just see you and they think like one day you just woke up as CEO of CureLeaf. But in fact, you were working in a dispensary when only 15 patients were coming in. And so for people that are just getting started, I think it's so inspiring for them to hear that they could be an assistant store manager right now and have the opportunity to work and grow. When you have seen employees that have really worked their way up outside of resilience, is there any common thread between people? Everyone is coming to us saying I want to get promoted, I want to get ahead, like what do I need to do? And of course it's like you need to be resilient and show up, but is there anything else that you've seen where like because you have some of the best talent in the world on the Kiroleaf team. What about those people do you think that makes them so great?
Matt Darin: I think it is somebody that is interested in being very knowledgeable about the cannabis plant and the industry that we're in and the consumer and that. It doesn't mean that you have to be a lifelong cannabis consumer or necessarily be the world's expert in it, but you have to demonstrate an interest in learning, in developing, in wanting to get exposed to all facets of the business as best as you can. And that's what I've found is people that are committed to doing that, there's so much information out there. And if you want to get educated, the information is there in terms of internal tools that we offer with our training programs, as well as just information generally available. People need to be knowledgeable about cannabis plant, cannabis products. We're not making widgets, this is a different business. And I have found that that is people that have had great stories moving up into different roles, it's because they've had a genuine interest and passion in the industry, in the products that we produce in the plant.
Karson Humiston: We all talk about like how challenging the space has been over the last decade. this is kind of a tough question, but is there one challenge that comes to mind where you're like that was the absolute most challenging thing that I've gone through in the cannabis industry outside of just like the day-to-day of like today my bank account got closed, tomorrow I'm sure I want to buy a house and I can't get the mortgage because I'm in the cannabis industry or this employee won't come work for us because of the stigma, like there are so many challenges. I love asking people like what is the If you had to pick one challenge that comes to your brain, which one is it?
Matt Darin: Wow, there's so many to count. Yeah, that's a hard one. Look, I'll point to a recent one that occurred that was really, I think, a pivotal moment and something that I'm really proud of, which was we had kind of a crazy occurrence happen where there was a license that we held, a very important license. in New Jersey and due to reasons that I won't go into, ultimately there was an issue where the license was potentially going to get revoked and it was going to have a major impact on our business and was completely wrong and really did not have any merit whatsoever. My team mobilized over the course of a weekend, basically, and basically brought together our entire team and was able to get this decision turned around over a weekend, basically, which I've never seen a state regulatory agency ultimately kind of reverse a decision that quickly. But I was just incredibly proud. It was an amazing moment. We ended up bringing hundreds of team members together from our facilities in New Jersey, a lot of friends customers that came to support us and basically had a protest outside of the agency that governed the industry there and was able to get the decision reversed. But that weekend was incredibly challenging and difficult and had big stakes at play. But I think it showed back to the resilience piece and back to having that will to do whatever it takes to be successful, that was one that I point back to.
Karson Humiston: You know another cool thing about that story is that like we talk about, so you guys are the biggest U.S. cannabis company, but when you started out you only had three stores and everyone was so scrappy. I feel like sometimes along the way when companies get so big they can't do these like all come together, move super fast, get something fixed over a weekend. So it feels to me like you've carried that early day, day one scrappy culture all the way through where you are now. How important is it for people that join the industry to like I mean I think about so many big corporations, there is no way people could come together over a weekend and get something like this done in a weekend. And so how have you, I talked to founders who are like, I want to go back to like the early days when we were just like getting in a room, getting shit done, moving super fast, but now I have a couple of thousand employees and like I can't like move people. How have you been able to… keep the culture and the mentality this day one so that you could do something like that over the course of a weekend. And not very many multi-thousand person companies can do what you just described.
Matt Darin: Yeah, I call it the entrepreneurial spirit and it's something that I have. It's always been in my blood. That's why I decided at a young age to go off on my own and work for myself. But I think it's incredibly important for companies to continue to have that entrepreneurial spirit. And I laugh a little bit. at this notion of these corporate cannabis companies that are these large conglomerates. The reality is these companies are run by entrepreneurs just like myself and many others, and they're still relatively young companies. This is still a very young industry, even though we've been at this for 10 years, when you think about it, kind of in a long-term view. And so, it's incredibly important to have that entrepreneurial spirit, to be scrappy, to be solution-oriented. You know, as I said, this industry, there's no playbook for exactly running a multi-state or a global cannabis business. You're writing the playbook, and that requires a, you know, entrepreneurial mindset where you know, that's not rigid. It's not already, you know, there for you. Not every SOP has been fully developed. You have to build that.
Karson Humiston: I mean, you heard it here first. The largest cannabis company says, got to be scrappy, got to move fast. And so, if Curaleaf is saying that, every single other business that's significantly smaller has to be taking that approach. Moving forward to thinking about 2024, we're sitting here, it's November, end of November, 2023. What are you optimistic about going into 2024 and what is your hope for the year?
Matt Darin: Yeah, I'm feeling very optimistic at the moment. There's no doubt this industry has gone from hyper growth to a next phase of its evolution and it's not been an easy couple years as you've seen markets that have gotten really oversupplied. Some of the regulations that have gone awry and really created some very challenging markets, but I feel like many companies have used this period of time, us included, to really tighten our belts, to focus on really improving operations, continuing to focus on execution, and have really become stronger businesses coming out of a hyper growth era into a more stabilized, you know, foundationally set business. And so I think I'm really happy with a lot of the work that we've been doing on that front, and I look at the forecasts of what's taking place and just some trends that we're seeing with some of the things like pricing compression and some of the oversupply that occurred. And look, the lack of capital that's come into the market the last couple of years has actually done a good thing to kind of rebalance some of the supply and demand in that. So I'm feeling bullish about where the industry is now headed. This industry has always been based on state-level catalysts, and I think that's going to continue to happen. New York's the big one that we're excited about. You know, we're hoping to be able to, you know, be launching there in the adult use market very, very soon here. We've got other catalysts on the horizon. We're looking forward to Germany. You know, we have a major presence in Europe.
Karson Humiston: I saw on Twitter that you were over there.
Matt Darin: Yeah, I was just over there in London meeting with our team. And, you know, Europe's not a story really getting talked about a lot in the U.S. today, but I think starting in 2024 with Germany removing cannabis from the narcotics list, it's going to really become front and center a lot more in the next few years. And so it's a big focus. of ours, and we're seeing Germany as a real big catalyst, 80 million people, and it's going to grow into a very large medical market. So we have some of those catalysts on the horizon. Obviously, some more states, hopefully, with places like Florida and Pennsylvania and Ohio that should be launching in September. And so I think there's some good things.
Karson Humiston: Some great hires coming?
Matt Darin: Some great hires, of course. Always looking to add top talent to the Curaleaf team, and yeah.
Karson Humiston: So my last question for you because I know you have to get back out there to MJBizCon, if you could give yourself in 2013, if you could give Matt 2013 advice, you're now sitting here as CEO of Curaleaf, you're giving Matt 2013 advice walking into the trade show in the Rio, what one piece of advice would you give yourself back then that you wish you knew over your decade career in cannabis?
Matt Darin: Wow, that is a great question.
Karson Humiston: I really go for the personal questions out here. This is a chance to get to know Matt at a different level.
Matt Darin: That's a good one. Buy a helmet, maybe? I don't know, I'm just kidding. I would say it is, you know, Prepare for the unexpected. I think you know that is cannabis is every day is different there are things around the corner that you're not gonna see and that you have to be able to quickly adapt and pivot and Keep an open mind to that, you know a lot of what I thought, you know a handful of years ago even more recently You know what? I have a different point of view on now. I've kept an open mind and I've I you know, tried to listen to different voices and, you know, really, and look, the industry continues to evolve. That's part of what makes it super fun is just it is always changing. And again, it's still relatively in its early stages, I believe. This is a much longer story. So I would say just really kind of having that open mind and, you know, be able to, you know, pivot when needed.
Karson Humiston: Well, thank you so much for being here. And for everybody, before we started recording, I checked on Vanks.com. Cureleaf has over 200 open jobs on Vanks.com right now. So if you want the chance to join Matt's incredible team, growing team, you can visit Vanks.com slash Cureleaf and apply to any of the jobs to get in touch directly with your awesome talent team who we work with. Thank you so much for being a customer of Vangst. We really appreciate your business and your partnership over the years. And I can't wait to see what you do in 2024 and beyond. So it's a great time having you on. I'm so glad we got to do this.
Matt Darin: Thank you. It's been great working with you and your team and look forward to more.
Karson Humiston: Thanks.