A Deep Dive into CannaDataCon's Success and Takeaways Karson Humiston reflects on the recent CannaDataCon conference with the show's organizer, Ian Dominguez, the founder and chief investment officer at Delta Emerald Ventures. The conference, held in Miami, aimed to address the repetitive nature of cannabis conferences and to foster a space for sharing best practices among operators and technologists in the cannabis industry.
From Challenges to Opportunities: Unpacking the Cannabis Market with Delta Emerald Ventures
Karson Humiston reflects on the recent CannaDataCon conference with the show's organizer, Ian Dominguez, the founder and chief investment officer at Delta Emerald Ventures. The conference, held in Miami, aimed to address the repetitive nature of cannabis conferences and to foster a space for sharing best practices among operators and technologists in the cannabis industry.
Karson describes the conference as intimate and small-scale, with a setting that encouraged mingling and networking among participants. The event saw an increase in attendance from the previous year, with both in-person and online participants nearly doubling. Despite this growth, Ian Dominguez intends to maintain the conference's intimate nature, capping in-person attendance at 200 for the following year.
A significant change in this year's conference was the inclusion of operators, which led to more comprehensive discussions. Panels featured industry experts like Dennis O'Malley, who spoke on topics such as discounting strategies. The conference's structure focused on driving sales and profitability in the cannabis retail space, with a strong emphasis on cooperation within the industry.
The episode delves into the key takeaways from the conference, including the importance of addressing meaningful problems collaboratively and the potential of hemp beverages as an emerging market. Karson and Ian discuss the consolidation trend in the cannabis industry, emphasizing the value of experienced talent and the benefits of companies working together to achieve profitability.
Ian shares his investment perspective, highlighting the importance of customer-focused founders and the potential of hemp, which is estimated to be as large as the cannabis market. He also touches on the challenges and opportunities in plant-touching operations and the need for focus and long-term commitment in the industry.
The conversation shifts to federal rescheduling of cannabis, which is seen as a positive development, though it is acknowledged that the process will be lengthy and complex. The potential impact of rescheduling on profitability and investment in the industry is discussed, along with the importance of state-level developments, such as the possibility of Florida legalizing adult-use cannabis.
The episode concludes with a discussion on the long-term mindset required for success in the cannabis industry, the importance of understanding customer needs, and the optimism and excitement for the future of cannabis that was palpable at the conference. They encourage listeners to attend the next CannaDataCon and to stay tuned for the release of recorded sessions from the event.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/iancdominguez/
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:00 - Introduction to Proud to Work in Cannabis Podcast
00:00:10 - Ian Dominguez and Canna DataCon Success
00:00:41 - Frustrations with Cannabis Conferences
00:01:40 - Canna DataCon's Intimate Setting
00:02:12 - Feedback and Future Size of Canna DataCon
00:03:13 - Inclusion of Operators at the Conference
00:04:24 - Key Takeaways from the Conference
00:05:00 - Conference Structure and Profitability Discussions
00:06:05 - Cooperation and Growth in the Cannabis Industry
00:06:39 - Hemp Beverages and Industry Trends
00:07:31 - Collaboration and Consolidation in Cannabis
00:08:08 - Talent Acquisition and Industry Consolidation
00:09:02 - Importance of Experience in the Cannabis Industry
00:10:03 - Reducing Redundancy in Cannabis Tech Providers
00:11:02 - The Future of Cannabis Service Providers
00:12:08 - Long-Term Mindset in the Cannabis Industry
00:13:02 - Federal Rescheduling and Industry Impact
00:14:26 - Investment Criteria for Delta Emerald Ventures
00:15:35 - Pre-Selling and Customer Validation
00:16:37 - Investment Focus for 2024
00:18:01 - Challenges and Opportunities in Plant-Touching Operations
00:19:55 - Long-Term Commitment in the Cannabis Industry
00:21:04 - The Future Size of the Cannabis Industry
00:22:38 - Federal Rescheduling and Momentum in the Industry
00:24:24 - State-Level Wins and Industry Optimism
00:25:05 - The Impact of Rescheduling on the Cannabis Market
00:27:00 - Consumer Demand and Hemp Product Safety
00:28:04 - Capitalizing on Industry Timing
00:29:07 - Optimism and Excitement in the Cannabis Industry
00:30:39 - Learning from Industry Trends at Canna DataCon
00:31:08 - Rationalization in Competitive Cannabis Markets
00:32:16 - Closing Remarks and Future Canna DataCon Announcements
QUOTES
"I felt like a lot of the same things were being said." - 00:00:51
"You're not going to solve them by just acting like everything's OK." - 00:01:23
"The whole purpose of Canada Data Con is to share best practices." - 00:01:33
"People love the intimacy of it." - 00:02:24
"We can cooperate to grow the size of this pie together." - 00:05:54
"Hemp beverages are extremely topical right now and something that we are very bullish on." - 00:06:15
"Talent is actually the scarcest resource in this industry today." - 00:08:18
"The cannabis industry will be bigger than the alcohol industry." - 00:21:14
"It's an indication of the consumer's level of demand for this product." - 00:27:20
"We pushed out some irrational actors, and now the players that are in that game right now are doing pretty well." - 00:31:29
Karson Humiston: Hey, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the Proud to Work in Cannabis podcast. And so last week I was down in Miami with Ian Dominguez, the founder and chief investment officer at Delta Emerald Ventures, investors in banks and tons of other great cannabis companies. Ian has now thrown two conferences called the Canna DataCon. It was an even bigger success this year than last year. I know I got a ton out of it, as did all of the founders and other operators that were down there. So, Ian, congratulations on another great event.
Ian Dominguez: Thank you so much, Carson.
Karson Humiston: Ian, tell us about why you decided to start Canada DataCon back in 23. Let's start there.
Ian Dominguez: Sure. So in many ways, it's a response to, I think, some frustration that I felt in going to I can't even tell you how many of these cannabis conferences where I felt like a lot of the same things were being said. And it's also this feeling where people are up on stage just waiting for their minute to talk. And I feel like that's not a good use of anyone's time. And the last part about this is I detected more often than not a little bit more chest thumping, let's say, than I felt was appropriate, because we know that there are challenges in this industry and you're not going to solve them by just acting like everything's OK. So the whole purpose of Canada Data Con is to share best practices, both as operators and technologists in this industry so that we can work together to try to solve some of the industry's most meaningful problems.
Karson Humiston: And one of the cool things about this conference in comparison to some of the large ones was that it's more small and intimate. And so, you know, you just kind of set the scene for people listening at the boutique hotel in Miami Beach, the The session rooms are kind of right by the pool and you're mingling at small tables outside. Most of us don't live in Miami, so it's an excuse to get down to some warm weather. Is your thought to keep it, you know, tight and intimate or grow it to something larger?
Ian Dominguez: Some of the strongest feedback that we have gotten now for two years in a row is that people love the intimacy of it. So just to give you a sense of sizing, Year one in 2023 was 78 people in person and 356 online participants, audience members, let's say. And then in 2024, we increased from 78 to 145 in person. And the online component was went from 356 to 665. So almost doubling on both. But I think Based on the feedback we're getting, I don't really see us blowing this out. This is going to be next year, I'd say max 200 people in person. And that way we can keep kind of the organic elements of this. So it's easier to really get to know people if it's not 50,000 people like some of the other conferences.
Karson Humiston: One of the cool things about this year in comparison to last year was you had operators there. And so on my panel in the front row, there was folks from Cresco Labs there. One of my favorite panels that I went to, you had Dennis O'Malley, who's operated lots of businesses in this space, talking about discounting. And so what made you decide to turn this from a conference with mostly tech founders, mostly founders and folks running Ancillary businesses to inviting the operators to join because I think that was a great addition to this event Yeah, thanks.
Ian Dominguez: So that that was direct feedback that we got and we're constantly trying to improve this thing I really wanted to take on a life of its own and and so to get maximum benefit for the people that we really are most focused on and We got this feedback that we'd love to have more operators who are the ones actually using this technology or coming up with new approaches to, as you mentioned, discounting or how to manage one's inventory. So it made for a much more complete discussion this year, and it's definitely something that we're going to build out for next year as well.
Karson Humiston: So let's get into some of the meat of the conference. Obviously, you were bouncing from panel to panel. There was a ton of great content. For you, as you, over the weekend, reflected on everything that you heard, if there was a key takeaway, as you think about writing your newsletter to your team or the recap, what is the takeaway in your mind from this conference theme going into 24?
Ian Dominguez: So yeah, a few. Just to level set, the way we tried to structure this conference was day one was more about driving sales as a retailer. And then day two was, okay, you've driven more sales. Now, how do you drive profitability in your dispensary or in your organization? I think my high level takeaways is one, this work that needs to be done, these meaningful problems that need to be solved, they're not going to get done on their own. What was really encouraging about what we saw at the conference is that you have people from all different sides of this industry hearing about a problem that we all agree is a problem, And when people can bring their version of or their thoughts to how to address that problem, I think it makes for a much more complete answer. So I was very encouraged by the amount of cooperation. In fact, that was a key element and theme of this conference is that We can cooperate to grow the size of this pie together. This is not something where everyone has to fight in their own foxhole and be intensely competitive with one another to get ahead. This is not necessarily a zero-sum game and most things in life are not that way. A couple other quick ones. I have to say, hemp beverages are extremely topical right now and something that we are very bullish on. And I got a lot, a kick out of the engagement that we had in that particular panel on day one.
Karson Humiston: That was the one with the Wolfmeyer and folks, right? That was like Anna Rae.
Ian Dominguez: No, that was later in the day. That was with Wonder and Anna Rae. Yeah, that's right. But we also had another panel that was talking about making the switch from cannabis to hemp, which is a very important topic. And the key thing I want people to take away is that ultimately it's the same cannabinoids that we're talking about. And so the people right now that I don't agree with are trying to make this an us versus them. The hell with that. That's not the case. We are all in this together and we can be aligned on this and driving safe access to cannabis to whoever wants it. And so I will immediately take the opposite side of anyone that tries to drive a wedge between these two industries because we're all working for the same thing.
Karson Humiston: Yeah, I did. I definitely did feel like that was a common theme around the collaboration. You know what one thing that you've. talked about to your companies and you spoke about in some of the panels and keynotes you were giving was people that can consolidate and get deals done you think will get ahead. So we saw people in your portfolio like Zoltran and Happy Cabbage come together and I know that you believe there's more of that to come. Anything that you want listeners or folks considering doing a deal or merging or, you know, acquihiring or things like that to be thinking about as we move into 24?
Ian Dominguez: Yeah, I mean, this is, you know this better than anyone, but talent is actually the scarcest resource in this industry today. And so right now, my opinion, our opinion is Delta Emerald, the name of the game is to amass the people that have real tenure and solid experience in this space. There are going to continue to be people that come into this industry that from other industries, say alcohol or tobacco or retail, name your pick. And I love that. I want to see more of that. But in reality, it is not just like someone, as you probably know, someone can't just jump into this industry and immediately be effective. You have to build relationships in this industry. And so the people that have been going after that, for years, they are really valuable. And so when you think about acquisition and where we are in this industry, we're entering a phase where I think the people that can get everyone rowing in the same direction under one vision, the way that a number of companies I think so far have been able to do, That's what future investors that are doing work on this industry now, who have never invested in this industry, but are currently doing research, my opinion is they're going to be looking for those leaders that are able to get people under one roof and to work towards a single vision.
Karson Humiston: I agree with that, and even when I was looking around the conference, there's still a lot of companies that, you know, you might not need so many companies, right? You might not need so many different technology providers, right? I was, you know, that was one of my takeaways, even just in having, you know, sidebar conversations, right? You speak to people that said that they have X amount of runway, Um, and then I was thinking in my mind, okay, these, these things are pretty similar. If you can combine them, you don't need three different accounting departments. You don't need three different sales forces. You don't need, so you probably could be profitable if you could combine a few of these things. And so I thought that was cool for me seeing people talking about, you know, bringing their teams together. And I don't know that that would happen if the industry was flush with cash the way that it was in, you know, 18 and 19. So this could actually ultimately make the industry more efficient in the long term.
Ian Dominguez: Absolutely. And there's plenty of precedent for this kind of thing happening in other industries. And when you take a step back, if I'm just going to speak for from the perspective of the service providing landscape, and maybe if you want to go even deeper and talk about tech, I mean, by our count, there are at least 150 service providers to the cannabis industry today. And that's probably too many. There are a lot of what we call point solutions. And there are a lot of companies that look more like features rather than standalone companies. That doesn't mean that they don't need to exist. It just means that they might make sense folded into a larger organization and there's a lot of value to be had for teams that are able to kind of confront that and Acknowledge it and then make something good out of it rather than trying you don't have to go it your own way For this whole journey. It's really hard being a founder a founder is co-founder or a single founder in a company. So having more minds together on one thing can actually be really beneficial, not to mention from a profitability standpoint too.
Karson Humiston: I completely, I completely agree. And I agree with your thoughts around the folks that can get it done and be the consolidators. You know, those are the, those are the leaders of the space. I also agree with what you were saying. And I think this was telling at the event to the people who have been in the industry and have their relationships and know the space. I mean, everybody thinks that they can jump into cannabis. You and I went to the alcohol conference. And right like we spoke to people that just thought like oh you just copy paste alcohol into cannabis and One of the things that Dennis said on his Panel around discounting he was like, you know people move into cannabis from Whatever industry and they just think that they take the same copy paste playbook and it literally doesn't work I mean think about how many probably Hundreds of millions of dollars have been wasted on trying to copy paste other other strategies into cannabis easily It's a really good question.
Ian Dominguez: We never thought about like that, but it's at least hundreds of millions of dollars that have been completely torched Assuming this is where you get yourself in trouble to make an assumption rather than really feedback from the marketplace Would you pay for this thing? Is this valuable to you? Or are you just grasping at straws or throwing spaghetti at the wall, as they say? It's a really easy way to lose money. And this industry cannot afford to do that kind of behavior anymore. That's where we're going to see stronger companies come out of this. And by the way, this is not just happening in cannabis. If you talk to anybody in early stage investing right now across VC, a lot of companies are looking at themselves, at their peers, trying to figure out what are they going to make work or not. And not everyone's going to make it. This is a natural part of the development of an industry.
Karson Humiston: One of the, you know, I went to the one of the sessions around that, like the Q&A with the Delta Emerald team. And I think a lot of the people that were at the conference are going to need to raise capital. And so people were saying, you know, as investors with a leading fund, what are you looking for? What is going to get you excited to write a check in 2024? I'm sure you get pitches every day around people with the wanting to raise. So what are you guys, you know, we talked about it at the conference, but what are you guys looking for? And where are you going to be writing checks in 2024?
Ian Dominguez: So I'll let the audience in on a very simple approach and I wouldn't call it a secret. We've talked about this probably before, but literally the first question that we ask a founder is tell us about your very first customer. How did you discover they have a problem? And what did you do about it? Because you would be shocked how many founders when asked that question Get back to telling you a story about how they knew there was some problem and we're like wait But did you actually talk to anybody about it? Yeah, or did you just kind of just assume?
Karson Humiston: So for people listening When I told Ian that I flew out to Colorado during college and went dispensary to dispensary and got them to pay $500 to hire someone through Graduana, that was a sufficient enough answer. But I agree with that. The amount of people out there that just literally don't speak to customers. It's like, what do you do all day if you're not talking to customers? You're in an echo chamber. But anyway, continue going. So the first thing you say is, Did you find a customer? I'll tell you one thing really quickly. I heard this the other day on a podcast, and I was like, I love this. They talk about pre-selling. And so one of the suggestions they had was, this is more for existing businesses, but before you launch a feature, have a prototype, show it to a customer, see if they get excited, and say, will you prepay just $100? That's it, just $100. We're going to launch in three months, but will you prepay $100 for this? And the amount of people that, you know, maybe you're gonna charge $1,000 for it, but if they'll just prepay $100, so you have some, a lot of people just won't do it. So it's like, well, you won't pay the $100 now for us to go prepay, why should we build this? So I really like that, and I think we could've saved a couple million dollars, hate to say this to an investor, on some products that we've done over the years that, you know, if we just would've asked a customer, will you prepay for this, we probably wouldn't have built it the same way. But anyway, so you ask these folks, who's your first customer?
Ian Dominguez: So now I will note, like, as we look to 2024, there are some some big themes that we think are really important. So this concept about consolidation in the space, it's just it's going to continue. That's it first started with the operators, but it's also happening on the service writing side of things. So we will continue to, I think, affect those types of deals. And I think that's going to be a big And and so it's that's that's an area that we think is a right for opportunity also Hemp is a huge huge category and you know, you have a relationship with Bo Whitney and He would be the research I can currently point to on this subject. But according to his estimates, and he could be off by a factor of two and still big. He's saying that hemp is as big today as cannabis. So $30 billion is as big as $30 billion. And again, he could be off by half and say hemp is $15 billion. So $15, yeah. It's still huge. So there's a lot going on in the hemp world, and we have already made some investments in that space, and I absolutely expect that that will continue. And yeah, so those are two major buckets to think of. And then the last part I don't want to forget about is You know, we some of our first investments were in let's call them plant touching operations To be totally open with this that's been the most difficult part of our portfolio And I think the same could be said of anybody who's been investing across the industry, but we're not Giving up on plant touching there are some learnings that we have out of it and I think we're just getting a smarter about how you place a focused bet on that space. So those are a couple of buckets that we're focused on. And the last overarching point is focus is critical. Doing a lot of kind of shiny object syndrome is very dangerous from an investor standpoint. It's dangerous for a founder's mental well-being. And so we really avoid companies where it feels like they're trying to do too much because that's not the type of industry we're in right now.
Karson Humiston: You know, another thing that you and I have talked about, and it came up, and you kind of mentioned it on this podcast already, but it came up at the conference, is just like the long-term mindset. I think part of the problem that a lot of people went through in this industry, I would even put myself in this bucket, is like, you raise this round, and you know, you're expected to 10x in the next year in an industry that just was not 10x-ing in the next year. And so people had these like wrong expectations of how long they were gonna be. in this industry for. And so I think if I was an investor, I would be saying to people, are you in for the next decade on this? Because, and I would, if I was a, if I was a raising a fund, I would be saying to the LPs, like, this could be the best fund you ever invest in, but you're not going to get a return in three years. So if you want to do that, go invest in something legal. I don't know what there's plenty of legal industries. There's plenty of legal companies, legal funds. Like this is a different, Ball camp or ballpark. Um, what what is your Like what is what are you saying to founders around time horizon? what are you saying to lps around time horizon because i've been much happier and more motivated and excited as i've You know, i've been like i'm in this for a long time and i'm not thinking about oh, what's the next thing? It's like this is a long long long game, but a big but a big win at the end exactly, I mean I I um
Ian Dominguez: Really mean this I I believe I was put on this planet to do what I'm currently doing and I can't see myself doing anything else so to compete with that kind of thing you have to have that type of Outlook on life and Be truly high energy with this because you're not it's not always gonna be good. It's not always gonna be fun it's gonna be difficult at times and So you have to be able to run through walls, literal and figurative walls. And so that's something that we look for. I look for that in the team that we've built within Delta Emerald, really high energy people and that are really committed to this industry. The people that were trying to make a quick buck are, in my opinion, most of them are already out.
Karson Humiston: Yeah, that's true. They were good.
Ian Dominguez: They went to crypto and they're doing, I don't know, AI stuff now or whatever. You really need to stick with this. But the payoff is huge. I mean, I know you've heard us talk about this too, but. Mark my words, the cannabis industry will be bigger than the alcohol industry. Alcohol is roughly $300 billion in the U.S. today. And I can show you data that suggests that there are people today, say in Oklahoma, that on average spend more on cannabis than the average American spends on alcohol. So this is part of the reason why we make statements like that. Because it's already true in some markets. So it's just a matter of time and and and that's that's the prize that we're playing for is a world-changing plant that it's already happening now And so just you got to hold on you got it. You got it. You got to hold on You've got to see the other side of this
Karson Humiston: Yes, and you remember at the craft brewing conference you went to that one slot? I mean, I think we you and I were sitting next to each other and we were looking at the slide around the size of that craft beer industry and we're like cannabis is already bigger than From a talent perspective.
Ian Dominguez: Yeah. Oh, yeah Cannabis already employs more people more people than the craft. No, it's all it's all beer actually Yeah, they were counting everybody in the distribution system that that beer runs on. Yeah
Karson Humiston: Yes, it's obviously like we're in our early, early days still. Yeah. What other you know, we've what was there any other you're talking about a lot was, you know, rescheduling today. I just as we're getting on to this call, I saw something saying that apparently work. I mean, I don't know. Maybe we're going to hear something this week. What was your what was your take away on how people were thinking through rescheduling and how that will impact their business in the near term and long term?
Ian Dominguez: The short answer is that it's positive. It seems like it's more likely than not, but I have never been one to try to call anything that happens on a federal basis, and I think we're fortunate that we have not gotten ourselves into trouble trying to game those things out. All that being said, it is a light Switch type of moment from a profitability standpoint from the operators themselves now one thing I really want to call out though is like even if we hear Tomorrow that the DEA has agreed with HHS and is in favor of moving to schedule three That doesn't mean anything yet. There's still a process that we have to go through and There will be lawsuits. So Once once the
Karson Humiston: When the DEA comes out and says they're agreed that cannabis should move to Schedule 3, we move into a 60-day comment period. During that time, there's definitely going to be a lawsuit, like everything else we've ever had seen.
Ian Dominguez: Yes. Anyone that expects these things to happen quickly is always going to get disappointed. But I think to take a step back, This is positive momentum. This is fact patterns that are looking better and better. And another one in the midst of that that's not a federal discussion is what's going on in Florida. It looks more likely than not that Florida will go up for ballot for adult use, which is other than Texas, the last bastion when we talk about population hubs with major medical programs that once they flip rec, it's going to be a game changer, an absolute game changer from a public perception standpoint. So regardless of what happens at the federal level, you've got these things that are still pushing in our favor. So, to kind of finish the thought though, Improved profitability and balance sheets across the industry once we actually get Schedule three is going to lead to higher multiples Let's say for some of the companies that are currently in existence. No question. It's going to drive more capital into the space and because investors who are currently doing work on the industry but who do not currently have exposure, they think in their heads, well, okay, what happens after Schedule 3? I don't know, but it probably makes federal legalization some degree more likely than it is right now. And so they try to get ahead of things like that, get ahead of a catalyst and you say, OK, I know that this thing's coming now. Now, how long until the next thing? These are all positive momentum factors here. So let me get in ahead of what I see as a series of more beneficial things. and ahead of other people that are yet precluded from getting involved. So they can explain to themselves why they feel like now's a good time to get involved. And I'll admit, six months ago, we didn't have this level of clarity. So I don't blame someone who was doing work six months ago to say, do I really need to act right now? They didn't, and they didn't really need to. But now you're seeing some real movement happen that kind of gives people a little bit more of that FOMO that has not been existent in the cannabis industry for, I'd argue, at least a year, year plus.
Karson Humiston: I'm really hoping that Florida, I think if Florida goes adult use, we'll need to open the Vangst Delta Emerald Miami office.
Ian Dominguez: That's right, right now I just work from home. Let's just get a little wee work. I'll be a snowbird. What's funny about Florida and really any state, I mean, I was in Georgia the other day. You go into any smoke shop today in the US, you can find cannabis products. Am I happy with that? No. I want safe products in the hands of consumers. And my guess is most of those products are not safe because they're not being tested. But I share this because It's an indication of the consumer's level of demand for this product. When it's made available, people buy it. And nowhere is that more true than in hemp beverages today. But it's true across the board.
Karson Humiston: And I do think what you were just saying around like, you know, maybe 6 months ago, people were waiting on the sidelines, but it's unfortunate because the prices have been so low. It's like you're never going to get like, if I was if I was an investor and LP, I would be trying to invest in a fund now so that these people like you can get into these deals at. I mean, it's not going to go. It's not going to get any less expensive than it is. right now, right? I think prices are going to go up. So now it feels to me like now is the time to be doing deals. And if you're a consolidator, and you have an opportunity to do a deal, it seems like, like, now's the moment to do it. But I understand people are very risk adverse.
Ian Dominguez: Yeah, I mean, we're definitely not market timers. And we're not trying to pick bottoms here. I generally agree with you that if these things do come to pass, like schedule three, for instance, prices are going higher for assets across the board, because more money will be able to come into the space than currently is in the space, right? And that capital has to find relatively few assets, relatively few teams that know what the hell they're doing. So you pay a premium for those things. And that's how it literally works.
Karson Humiston: Yeah. I think no matter how you look at it, this last year was tough for everybody, if you think about it. But I think there's just my takeaway from the conference was there's like, like a new level of excitement coming in back into the space. Everybody's really optimistic. We're excited about you know, rescheduling, even though we know it's going to be a long road, that's like a positive win for the industry. Ohio was a big win. Florida could be a big win. So I felt like when I was talking to people, everybody was pumped up and excited. And that is something that I would say in 2023, you know, I'll tell you a true story. It ended up working out. 2023, I went to Canada DataCon and listened to everybody talk just about like the need to cut costs. you know, I'm listening to everybody talk about the need to cut costs, how they're all going into layoffs. That was in 2023 at Canada data con. And I left Canada data con and I drove to my investor, Andrea hippos house in Florida. And I said to her, like, we got caught like half our team, like massive layoffs across cannabis are coming. This is bad. Like I left Canada data con about to have a panic attack last year. And anyway, we did the cuts, thank God. And we were good thing because everybody did. And that made us stronger this year. I didn't leave Canada Data Con this year in a state of panic attack. I actually left being like, calling this guy that's doing a sales training, being like, I need to do three sales trainings because I need to ramp up a few more sales people to get ready to hit the gas. So I left less in a state of a panic this year than last year. And so last year, basically what I learned from the conference came to fruition. And I'm hoping this year the same thing happens, because it'll be significantly more positive.
Ian Dominguez: Yeah, you're trying to front run the industry on what you hear at Canada data con. I love it. Yeah, no, it's I'll share one thing. And this is an individual that I have gotten to know better through Canada data con is encore from c3 industries. Yeah. Oh my gosh, I thought he was great. He did. He was on multiple panels and did it.
Karson Humiston: And one thing I learned about
Ian Dominguez: That about the industry is, you know, he has operations in Missouri, Michigan, a number of states. But Michigan is a microcosm of this industry. It went through a run up and then it had its kind of moment of despair or period of time of that. And now you have a rationalization. You pushed out some irrational actors, let's say. And now the players that are in that game right now are doing pretty well in a very competitive market because they've learned not to, let's say, discount each other into oblivion. And they've figured out how they can all coexist and get customers what they want and actually make a profit doing it. And so if Michigan can do it, I think any state in this union can do it.
Karson Humiston: Completely agree. Well, Ian, I know we're running out of time here, but the conference was great. If you're listening, you should sign up for Canada Data Con 2025. I'm sure the dates will be announced sooner than later. And yeah, it's always great having you on. I'm excited to catch up in the summer and see where we go. And I'm excited to go to Canada Data Con next year.
Ian Dominguez: Absolutely, yeah, it'll be in very early February But we haven't announced any dates yet, and we'll also be releasing for those who weren't able to Catch the live stream or in person. We'll be releasing videos. Everything was recorded except for one panel which is a some people that were wanted to they were in the tobacco industry and so they didn't want their uh they were not ready to be live broadcast across the world so i totally get that i bet you by next year they'll be ready yeah yeah ian thanks so much for joining today thanks so much for having me carson