Helping to drive policy and consulting emerging businesses across the world. Jay Czarkowski & Diane Czarkowski the founding partners of Canna Advisors join Karson Humiston to share their amazing cannabis journey. They explain how they entered the industry before adult-use was legal in 2009 with a dispensary and a cultivation facility in Boulder Colorado. They discuss helping cannabis entrepreneurs win licenses across the country and they provide insight into the industry's future. Produced by PodConx Proud To Work In Cannabis - https://podconx.com/podcasts/proud-to-work-in-cannabis Karson Humiston - https://podconx.com/guests/karson-humiston Vangst - https://vangst.com/ Canna Advisors - https://thinkcanna.com/ Jay Czarkowski - https://podconx.com/guests/jay-czarkowski Diane Czarkowski - https://podconx.com/guests/diane-czarkowski
Helping to drive policy and consulting emerging businesses across the world.
Jay Czarkowski & Diane Czarkowski the founding partners of Canna Advisors join Karson Humiston to share their amazing cannabis journey. They explain how they entered the industry before adult-use was legal in 2009 with a dispensary and a cultivation facility in Boulder Colorado. They discuss helping cannabis entrepreneurs win licenses across the country and they provide insight into the industry's future.
Proud To Work In Cannabis - https://podconx.com/podcasts/proud-to-work-in-cannabis
Karson Humiston - https://podconx.com/guests/karson-humiston
Vangst - https://vangst.com/
Canna Advisors - https://thinkcanna.com/
Jay Czarkowski - https://podconx.com/guests/jay-czarkowski
Diane Czarkowski - https://podconx.com/guests/diane-czarkowski
Jay & Diane Czarkowski:[00:00:00] Hi, I'm Diane Caskey. I'm the founding partner of Canon advisors, and I'm proud to work in cannabis because we're changing the world for the better. My name's Jason Murkowski. I am also a founding partner of Canada advisors. I'm proud to work in the cannabis industry for a number of reasons. There needs to be an initial.
And cannabis of course needs to be legal. So unfortunately today it's still illegal in so many places. So a lot of work will be done and I'm proud to do that work. I'm proud of legalized cannabis in many places.
Karson Humiston: Hey everybody. And welcome to the proud to work in cannabis podcast. I'm your host, Carson Hermiston, the founder and CEO of . And today I'm so excited to have two very special guests with us. Jay and Diane is our county. Jay and Diane, first off, they opened their first dispensary in first grow in 2009 before licenses were even a [00:01:00] thing, they then went on to become some of the first licensed operators in the state of Colorado and ultimately opened Canna advisors, which is.
Consulting firm that specializes in competitive licenses in places where there's limited, limited licenses states and Jay and dye were actually some of our very first customers and some of the very first people I ever met in the cannabis industry. And it's such an honor to have them on our show today on four 20.
So Jay and dye, welcome to the show. Happy four 20. How are you today?
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: Happy four 20 Carson. We're great. Thanks for having us.
Karson Humiston: So let's jump right into a J and di tell us, how did you decide to go into the cannabis industry in 2009 before the cannabis industry was the cannabis industry.
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: I like to say it was a series of unfortunate events. I, no, honestly I J J tells the story better, but it wasn't something that we really planned for. [00:02:00] I don't have to call it the great depression of 2008. Diane and I were developing real estate, not just developing, listed anywhere but up in the sea areas. Right. We're pretty much values were caught in half back in 2008. So, we are in the process of really losing everything in terms of this wonderful development business that we had.
So we had to, where we had to pivot, I closed my office up in the mountains. I'm in the process of closing my office in downtown Boulder, my construction office. There's a little building, about half a block off of Pearl street in Boulder, Colorado. And what happened? We put it up for sublease. I circled it approached by groups of young people, all, offering me three months, cash upfront, six months cash upfront.
Like what are you kids up to? Well, we're going to open a medical marijuana dispensary, so you don't see. So, we looked into it, it took me about two weeks to convince Diane that it was a good idea and that our kids would not be without parents. Cause we'd be in jail again. This was [00:03:00] 2009. There's no licenses back then.
There's no regulations, there's no rules to do this. We're just a bunch of bold pioneers taking some very risky steps which we did. so we we executed opening day was November 14th, 2009. Shortly thereafter, we signed the lease for our first warehouse, built our first growth. And by 2011, we're rocking it.
We got four grows in Boulder of doing a ton of wholesale. And again, back then, wholesale was just some guy back to his car, into your warehouse. You put five pounds of wheat into his trunk. He gave you a stash of cash and that was it. The real metric tags back then Lance tracking clients. I still don't know what all that.
Karson Humiston: So, so speaking of four 20, can you tell us about your first for 20 ever you've been in this industry since 2009? What, what was four 20, like back in the day?
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: So, four 20 was kind of a big thing early on in Boulder, Colorado, because the university of Colorado CU is of course in, in [00:04:00] Boulder. And the students held a big four 20 railroad. Right on the quad, it's called the Northern quad, this big outdoor co-op, it was pretty crazy tens of thousands of people would pack into this quad.
And of course at four 20 there's a Dick Smokeout and I'm sure pictures could probably be still be found on the internet. We're very visible over the quarter was it was pretty cool. And then of course, as time went on, see you. And they began to spread fish fertilizer on the quad before 4 21 year. They even took the unprecedented step of closing the entire campus in cordoning it off and prevented people from going out to campus.
They canceled classes where they really put the kibosh on it, but that's okay. We'll legalize cannabis here in 2012 and kind of moved on one of my favorite memories of four 20 and going to the. Is when we had one of our first clients, I think they were from New York, from New York. And it was really this young [00:05:00] man.
His father had arranged for his trip down and brought like one of the family. What would you call the CPA, the financial, but it all fit, worked in the family business for a long time. And we actually took them with us to the four 20 rally. This guy's in a suit. They just, they were so like a fish out of water and could not believe what they were seeing, that, that, thousands of people gathered on this big patch of grass where smoking up, nobody was doing anything to stop them.
It was really.
Karson Humiston: All right. Let's get back to your story. So it's 2009. J you convinced di that it's a good idea to go into the cannabis industry. Tell us about those first days. I mean like the process of opening the business, , I can't even imagine what kind of steps went into that.
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: So we kind of made up, made a bold move. , we stumbled upon this idea through, I think an attorney that we worked with at the. he suggests that we go down to the city [00:06:00] of Boulder and fill out a one page, just like a sales and use tax for me, some of that.
Any business would fill out. It's a one pager sales and use tax permit. And there was a $25 fetus. so a one $25 and works for the type of business , I just wrote it in medical marijuana at this point. And no kidding. Three days later, we get a sales and use tax license in the mail for a medical marijuana dispensary. I don't even know if they looked at it. I don't know if they scanned it in, but anyway, we have this in our hand, I was so excited.
I went back down to the city of Boulder that day and filled in another one page form and then another $25 on cause we had a warehouse down the road and I just wrote in medical marijuana grow operation. And three days later, we go to permit for that. And we were off and running really had no idea.
Carson auto grow cannabis. , we thought we want to look for somebody dying. I will expression our heads, but who do we know that maybe there was something about [00:07:00] cannabis and who's that guy that I meet at your real estate office, Christmas party every year, the guy with the really good weed. What's his name?
So anyway, we contacted this gentleman and sure enough, he had his guy. Charles, the guy that Wofford old, Sean, 15% of the company back then to come join us and be our grower. He only lasted for two weeks because the whole corporate thing wasn't really for him. Plus we thought it was odd. He was mixing nutrients, this, pouring a little bit of that, a little bit of this on a mix it up, not a whole lot of science behind it, but you know, that's of how we get started.
And I'll just mention. It was a patient caregiver model that Colorado had early on. So what we had to do was we had to have patients. So opening day for us in November of 20,009 was what we call wow. What a doctor up in Denver, the doctor block with sand and also got a call to leave. And then we had our friends and family come see the doctor [00:08:00] and the doctor examined them and growth in the medical marijuana card.
And then we had a load off to the state with this. Well, by the end of our Dr. Day, we had 30, some odd patients and our patients to grow like , 200 and some odd plants. And we were in business back in 2009. That's the way it was back then. It wasn't like it is now.
Karson Humiston: , then let's talk about what happened in 2011. When you guys became some of the. Licensed operators. What was the process of getting the first license? Like what was the licensing process back in 2011?
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: No 2011?
Really from day one, we sought out other colleagues. There, there were not that many of us, we met other OGs that had actually been doing it longer than me. And there quickly became a real connection, especially with the early women. We would get together once a month.
It was almost like a support group and it was through that, that we had a women's high tea event [00:09:00] that was kind of very centered around getting people together and supposedly. Letters to people in prison. And we would write letters to politicians and things like that. And one of the people who came to that event, she connected us to some guys who were in Connecticut and they were going to be going for one of the first competitive licenses in the state.
And they just needed someone who had industry expertise to help them with writing the application. And so that was our first client. So we really had no intention of being consultants in the industry. But the need was quickly presented to us and things took off immediately after that Massachusetts popped.
And then it was, pretty.
Karson Humiston: so when people are out there and they're, they're in a new state and they want to win a license, and they come to you. What's the process like of an idea in my head, I'm a business owner. I think I might want to go [00:10:00] into cannabis to actually opening up. And how do you guide your clients through that process?
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: Well, it really depends on the state, right. And how competitive it's going to be. One of the first things that we'll do is really try to qualify the group that reaches out to us. And a lot of times attempt to talk the person out of their pursuit. If we don't think they really have what it takes to win, especially in station, there's only a very small number of licenses, but, what's critical and what we look for and again, , the larger number of licenses available in any given state, easier guests.
But first and foremost, you have to have that desire to win. It's important to control the real estate. Sometimes the states. We'll have that. We'll sit with control that you have a real estate, or you certainly have to show that you have the capital in which to execute on your plan. Should the state give you a license? It's important to have a good team put together any state, or it's going to want to see that you have certain expertise on your team, whether it be [00:11:00] Asian manufacturing, processing, or security, that kind of thing. That's so, those are probably some of the high points.
Karson Humiston: so, if I'm out there and I'm thinking about, what, I might want to win a cannabis businesses, how much capital are we talking about here? I think it's a common question that comes up. I've see. Blog posts. How much money do I need to start a cannabis business?
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: Yeah. I mean, that's a great question, ? In New York right now. There's people that are selling cannabis out of their existing bodega or a food truck, right. That cost to entry is pretty well. And I think certainly for dispensary, people throw around some pretty big numbers, but I don't agree with a big number for the sponsor and where there's a will, there's a way to succeed.
So for dispensary, I mean a couple hundred thousand bucks, if you could get yourself a lease for some space, it. Implement whatever security is required about the state or local municipality, you're train some staff and a point of sale system and more get some products. There's, there's a lot of ways to grow slow.
Conversely, you could certainly spend [00:12:00] millions of dollars to open up a flagship store. You cultivation course the sky's the limit. That's really where, know, if you're going to. Business and want to be successful. You need to compete at scale. so, you're willing millions of dollars are necessary to build a scale and compete who stays.
I mean, cannabis can become more and more of a commodity, so want to make money better. And that will give facility where you grow efficiently.
Karson Humiston: so, one question I have is you've seen cannabis evolve over the years. What's been the biggest changes that you've seen since you first started. 2 20 22.
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: It's just so much more widely recognized. I remember when we first got started. People talked about it in hushed voices. If you were needing someone to talk to them about getting into the industry, they weren't necessarily comfortable about even being seen. It's just, the other day I was at the Safeway grocery store and there [00:13:00] was a magazine , women, and weed, and talking about the health benefits and how women's specific.
Use cannabis. So it just seems so much more mainstream now. There are only a handful of businesses that even had some type of a medical program, which was usually that caregiver model, that started in California. And now we have, multi-state operators that are dabbling up, licenses here and there that originally started out, being small.
I'd like to think though that there's still. Going to be at the spectrum of business sizes going forward. I don't want it to be all become, owned by, a handful of conglomerates. I'd love to see the craft growers and the real artisans still have a place. And the industry, and there will be, I'm going to ask some additional perspective to Carson on that, back in 2009 is shocking as the sounds right.
Or there's no banks or any other recruiting company in cannabis in 2009, there were certainly no consulting companies. The [00:14:00] term M S that didn't even exist because there was no such thing as anybody in cannabis that and operations in multiple states. There were no investment firms. Let's talk about point of sale, one of the most basic.
Items now, right? For any cannabis businesses, that cannabis specific point of sale system of which there are dozens of properties. When we opened our first dispensary, we use the restaurant or himself system. We knew another lady in town that because she was a formerly a hairdresser, she used like a beauty salons point of sale system for Canada.
So there was nothing back then, nothing. And today there's a lot going on in shock. My opinion, the mystery is still in its infancy or 10 years later. There's still so much upside in the long way for the growth. So interesting and exciting times.
Karson Humiston: Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit. , you say, and I think a lot of people, including myself, believe in this, that the industry is still in its infancy. We say all the time that the industry is as small as it will ever [00:15:00] be today. Right. And so what gets you most excited? What get you continuing to get out of bed every day and work on this?
You've obviously been very successful, but you continue marching forward. What are you excited?
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: I'm most excited?
for right now. When I look at the the population of New Jersey and New York in Pennsylvania, just those three states alone. There's more people than all of California. And the there's nothing out there right now. I mean, New York still has its worth 10 licenses. New Jersey maybe has 10 to 12 operating licenses at this point.
Pennsylvania still has relatively small, although, fairly decent number of licenses. The, the black market in those states are exceeds in dwarfs the legal market. There is so much opportunity for brands to develop in the Northeast. Dispensary's cultivation facility is processing the opportunity.
The Northeast is incredible compared to California where there's billions and billions of dollars in revenue are yet to be developed out there. [00:16:00] And in my humble opinion, I will I will, go out and say that we're based on what I believe is superior financial expertise in more of these more evolved marketing and branding expertise in more views.
I'll be there over time. The cannabis industry in the Northeast will warfare or California will be the most respected in meeting all of the industry of the.
Karson Humiston: . So let's talk about California a little bit. We hear, and you see headlines that the black market is still thriving in California. Despite there being a large. Adult use and medical market. How do we change that?
And how do we get all consumers in, into the regulated market?
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: Gosh, California is it's a very complicated market to, to talk about. I think that there's no magic bullet solution. I think that.
we're just going to have to like every other market it's going to evolve and it's going to be those [00:17:00] pain points that push for the, the evolution. So, they're going to have to make it more comparable in price to the enlisted market.
There are still so many areas that that don't allow for licensing. , it's phenomenal to me to, to think that a local municipality wouldn't allow it because he listened markets already in their counties. They just have no opportunity to regulate it. I think licensing is the best way to to control the elicit. But you have to make it accessible to people. You have to make it affordable to people and you have to make it possible for the business to to make money too, because it can't, it can't withstand all the fees and, and the, the cost for testing and things like that, that the illicit market doesn't have to go through it.
, they don't test their products, go through labeling things and, and go through all their regulations , that illegal business stops. [00:18:00] It's been its own animal for generations. We, there there's been an industry in California Farson since before I was even born. Right. It's been the wild west out there and they've had , their cultural way of doing business for generations. So wine. Legal, market's going to stabilize in a short period of time right.
It's not going to happen. We we've seen that. I have a general rule for my business that I don't do this business in California cause it's it's just crazy out there. Certainly the licensing schemes and the taxing steams, there's a lot going against the little businesses. And it's market dynamics, right?
The consumer wants a good product at a good price. They want top-notch customer service. If they're getting those three things from there, from the dealer down the street, versus a dispensary, of course you're gonna go to the dealer. So, California has a lot going against it in terms of its legal market and certainly a long way to go or mature, say more.
Karson Humiston: Well, it's always interesting to hear that people's take, and obviously like, like Jane dire saying they're super excited for New York, Pennsylvania, and New [00:19:00] Jersey, and we're just brand new. Getting started. Very limited amount of licenses there. And over the next few years, they're going to take off and maybe California can learn a thing or two , from the Northeast switching to a more personal question.
You guys have been in the industry for quite a long time. What's your best memory or favorite story over the years?
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: Best memory. There've been a lot of great numbers, I think really being exposed to some really remarkable people that have, I would say, the moms, the moms of the sick kids that early on, we're the ones to get the earliest legislation passed.
And seeing with your own eyes, seeing the benefits that their kids were, were receiving from using cannabis. The people that I work with in the industry, people like you, Carson, it's just, it's different than a regular job. It really is. There's a lot more passion and commitment and just heart put into what we do.
So I don't have any one particular memory. [00:20:00] It's just, that's why I'm here. I'll give you some memories. Carson, I've got a lot of fun memories. I mean, gosh, what a, what a great ride this has been, I'm going to, , I'll just start off in no particular order. Let's talk about the first time we we met Carson homicide and was, it were introduced to her new business.
When when you were basically charging a thousand bucks a pop for a place. I'm like, damn, I'll take three. I think we still have some people on our team that you recruited for us six years ago. Offer short money. That's a great memory.
Karson Humiston: . I went to Jay and DI's office. I pitched them and Jay said, this is great. I will sign up for three. I was like, boom, biggest customer, second customer. And it was a great experience.
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: , so that, can advisors client number one of course, was that group in Connecticut that I mentioned, many years ago it was pretty damn exciting when, when we won that license that was can advisors, client number one, winning was like licensed zeros, 0 0 1 in Connecticut, one of only [00:21:00] four cultivator processors, and then went on to sell that three years ago to GTI for, I don't know, $80 million, but that was very active.
I thought it was, it's an interesting story to tell back in the early days, why not? The middle of the night on Diane's birthday, we had to move 2,600 plants. This, they, there was a situation we had to get these plants out of the building. Yeah, everybody pitched in, but you know, this industry has always been about the people it's been about the con the comradery.
I mean, yeah, there's a lot of, folks in the industry that, of course you don't want to be associated with. You don't want to associate with, and maybe, know, you have a bad experience.
but there's a lot of great people in this industry. And that's what gets me up everyday. Carson is working with some great people to continue to help build this next great American this next great global.
Karson Humiston: So for people that are listening that are considering getting into the cannabis industry, or maybe they just landed their first job in the cannabis industry, what advice would you give them? It's day one. I'm just starting in cannabis.
Jay & Diane Czarkowski:[00:22:00] Networking is great. If you are in a place that has some type of some type of community networking event, go to it. Everyone that I know is happy to talk to people who want to learn more. And I think that there are really opportunities for anyone still, he wants to get involved, whether you want to be plant touching or a supportive ancillary business like us, , we don't touch the plant, but you know, it's really nice to be able to work with new people and in markets that haven't been in their state before, they're the new pioneer.
And I really enjoy working with those clients. It brings me back to the days when we first got started and And it, it's kind of like we come from the future, like, we have seen some of the evolution of that in the Colorado market and, and like the people in New York right now they, they still have yet to see that.
Be humble [00:23:00] because the industry is not easy. I think those that get involved those that work hard, like those that, give to the industry or help the industry grow, help others. In my experience, the more you give to the industry the industry does get.
Karson Humiston: And the final question for the two of you. If you could wave a wand and have one thing in the cannabis industry today, or see the industry and, a future state, , where do you see and what do you want?
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: No, of course soon, there's probably so many things that that one would wish for. Sometimes I, I think that I'd love to have my. No cultivation facility again, it's probably a bad idea, but I think about that sometimes. And maybe maybe when I retire in a year, year and a half, maybe that'll be a great retirement project, getting a cultivation license in Jersey and New York and building a big growth.
I don't really know, but you know, I, I'd certainly love to see this federal legalization or some type of federal legalization happened. Part of me says, eh, maybe maybe I'll keep working and not retire. We're tired. Once we have some [00:24:00] kind of federal legalization, we know what's inevitable, right.
We know what's going to happen, but I certainly look forward to that day. I have so many different wishes for this industry. One of them for sure is just getting more medical doctors involved. That they understand how to recommend it to their patients rather than the patient informing the doctor, how to use it.
I definitely don't want to see people keep going to jail for having cannabis or using cannabis . So many families get torn apart by that. And then, just the stigma to go away. I would love to be able to. Walk around or participate in using cannabis, just like I can a glass of wine and have it not be a big deal.
Karson Humiston: Completely agree with both of those. And I'm very curious to potentially come to J and DI's the retirement cultivation facility, that dye was kind of shaking her [00:25:00] head.
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: No, it won't be a J and di exploration there. That will be a J. all by himself.
Karson Humiston: Jay . Maybe we'll we'll come and visit. You. We'll have to have you back on once you open your retirement cultivation facility. Well, Jay and I thank you so much for being with us here today on four 20, we hope all of our listeners have a great four 20. If you want to connect with Jay and di, they are both on LinkedIn.
You can visit the Canada advisor's website and Jane di thank you so much for being here.
Jay & Diane Czarkowski: Thanks for having this person. Thanks Carson.