"Motivating Through Challenges: Nick Vita's Leadership in the Cannabis Industry" Nick Vita, the co-founder and CEO of The Cannabist Company (formerly known as Columbia Care) joins Karson Humiston in Las Vegas to discuss various topics, including the rebranding of the company, the challenges and successes of building a cannabis business, and the importance of being a founder-led organization. They also touch on the current state of the cannabis industry and make predictions for the future. Nick shares his insights on hiring the right team members, motivating them in a challenging environment, and the importance of persistence and never giving up. Overall, the conversation highlights the resilience and determination required to succeed in the cannabis industry and the potential for growth and opportunities in the coming years.
Karson Humiston is live from MJBizCon in Las Vegas with and guest Nick Vita, co-founder and CEO of The Cannabist Company (formerly known as Columbia Care), to discuss the journey of building a successful cannabis business. They delve into topics such as the challenges faced in the industry, the importance of persistence and leadership, and the recent rebranding of the company.
The conversation begins with a reflection on the growth and changes in the cannabis industry over the past decade. Nick Vita highlights the momentum and increasing interest in the industry, despite previous regulatory setbacks. He emphasizes the need for persistence and the cyclical nature of the cannabis business.
The discussion then shifts to Nick Vita's background and career before entering the cannabis industry. He shares his experience in finance and how he convinced friends to invest in a cannabis idea that eventually led to the founding of The Cannabist. However, he also recounts the challenges faced when the person they thought would run the business turned out to be unethical.
The conversation touches on the importance of resilience and the rollercoaster nature of the cannabis industry. Nick Vita shares anecdotes of sleeping on couches, funding the business on a tight budget, and the challenges of navigating the complex regulatory landscape in different states.
The podcast then delves into the qualities Nick Vita looks for when hiring team members. He emphasizes the importance of tenacity, trustworthiness, and a willingness to go above and beyond. He also discusses the value of having a team that shares the same vision and is willing to work towards it.
The discussion concludes with a focus on the recent rebranding of the company from Columbia Care to The Cannabist. Nick Vita explains the rationale behind the rebrand, highlighting the resonance of the name with the community, employees, and cultural values of the company. He also discusses the importance of quality and the perception of cannabis as a medicine.
Looking towards the future, Nick Vita predicts significant developments in the cannabis industry. He anticipates the rescheduling of cannabis to Schedule III, the expansion of the industry in conservative states, and the normalization of capital markets. He also expresses optimism about the potential for job creation and the growth of the industry.
Overall, this podcast episode provides valuable insights into the challenges and rewards of building a cannabis business, emphasizing the importance of persistence, leadership, and a strong team.
https://www.cannabistcompany.com/
00:00:17 - Introduction and Excitement for Live Podcasts
00:00:45 - Reflecting on the Evolution of the Cannabis Trade Show
00:01:04 - Disappointment and Progress in the Cannabis Industry
00:01:27 - Momentum and New Faces in the Cannabis Industry
00:01:48 - Optimism and Energy in the Cannabis Industry
00:01:59 - The Cyclical Nature of the Cannabis Industry
00:03:18 - Nick Vita's Background and Journey into the Cannabis Business
00:04:01 - The First Trauma in Starting a Cannabis Business
00:04:22 - Winning the Support of Ben and Jerry
00:05:39 - Launching in Different States and Following Regulatory Conversations
00:06:23 - Persistence and Sacrifices in Building a Cannabis Business
00:08:42 - The Moment Things Started to Click for the Business
00:10:13 - Winning the License in New York and the Journey Since
00:11:41 - The Challenges and Rewards of Being a Founder-Led Business
00:13:54 - The Importance of Being Present and Leading by Example
00:16:11 - Lessons Learned from Hiring Big Company People
00:18:00 - Qualities Looked for in Hiring Team Members
00:20:39 - The Importance of Open and Honest Conversations in Building a Business
00:23:42 - Motivating the Team in a Challenging Environment
00:29:04 - The Rebranding from Columbia Care to The Cannabist
00:31:54 - Predictions for the Cannabis Industry in 2024
00:34:01 - Hope for the Expansion and Normalization of the Cannabis Industry
"We're the only industry I know of where you have to be a farmer, you have to be a manufacturer, you have to be a retailer, and you have to have wholesale." - 00:02:36-00:02:47
"I think the cyclical nature of the industry makes the fun parts that much more fun." - 00:02:26-00:02:36
"I think a lot of people, in hindsight, it becomes addictive." - 00:07:38-00:07:48
"It's the best part and the worst part about being part of an organization." - 00:08:32-00:08:42
"I think by the time I no longer need to be here, it's because the business will have grown enough so that the institutional connective tissue that I bring to the conversation is no longer necessary." - 00:15:49-00:16:00
"I always say work harder than everybody else." - 00:28:48-00:28:59
"There is nothing worth building, there's nothing worth creating, if you're going to mail it in." - 00:22:40-00:22:50
"I think we have schedule three affirmed." - 00:32:15-00:32:26
"I think New York is an up and coming sort of attractive cannabis market for operators for the first time ever." - 00:32:26-00:32:36
"I think it's a seminal year. And I think it's more so than we've seen in the past five, six years." - 00:33:50-00:34:01
Karson Humiston: All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the live Proud to Work in Cannabis. It's the first day ever that we're doing these lives, so we're super excited to have you here today. Nick Vita is the co-founder and CEO of The Cannabis. We've got all the swag on. Formerly known as Columbia Care. I can't wait to talk about the rebrand. I absolutely love all of the new name, the new logo, everything, so I can't wait to get into it. But thank you so much for sitting down with me today and being here in Vegas.
Nick Vita: Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
Karson Humiston: So we were just trying to think about, you know, Las Vegas basically a decade ago and how different the trade show was. But, you know, for you being here in 2023, you know, so far, what are the major differences that you've seen this year than in the previous years of MJBizCon? Because it's been a journey.
Nick Vita: Well, this is like the end of a phase, meaning we had a really sort of busy phase, I want to say, years ago. And then we've obviously had a couple of false starts on the regulatory front. And I think that's been disappointing to people, because everyone has such high expectations for the industry and for the opportunity and for the community impact. And we haven't gotten there yet. I think we've been moving and making progress. But with the rescheduling conversation happening, what I've seen is that it is as busy this year as it's been any year. And it's not just busy from the standpoint of companies. There are a lot of new faces, a lot of new companies that are trying to get into the industry, a lot of new vendors. And so what that tells me is that from a leading indicator perspective, there's momentum coming back into cannabis, which I'm really happy to see.
Karson Humiston: It is definitely refreshing because I feel like even last year at the MJ biz, you kind of walked around and people were a little sad. It seems like this year there's definitely some optimism, definitely some energy. So it's, it's refreshing. And it kind of reminds me of like 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019. And it was like, everyone was so fired up. I've been saying to our team, cause some people joined like in 2022, like when things weren't the best, I'm like, no, no, no guys, it was really, really fun. And we're about to get back to that point.
Nick Vita: You know, it's interesting because I think the cyclical nature of the industry makes the fun parts that much more fun. And for what it's worth, if it was just as easy as everyone thought it would be, it wouldn't be that rewarding. The fact is, we've been through cycles. We've experienced disappointment. We've experienced real elation. Think about it. We're the only industry I know of where you have to be a farmer, you have to be a manufacturer, you have to be a retailer, and you have to have wholesale. It's the only industry I know of where you have all that, you're an emerging market in the United States or globally, and on top of it, you're federally legal. And so when the biggest stick in the world, the US government decides, hey, you're not so bad after all, that's a reason to celebrate. And I think that's what we're hearing right now. And that's why people are starting to bring their mojo back into the conversation.
Karson Humiston: Love it. And we're going to get into all of our predictions for 2024 and beyond. But I want to talk about you. This podcast is an awesome opportunity for the industry workforce, the people that are here working for all of our business to get to know you, who is a leader and a pioneer in the industry. So backing up to before you decided to start this business, what was your career like? And then can you walk us into how in the world you had the crazy idea to start a cannabis business? I think people that start a cannabis business, there's a little something off with them, myself included. So we want to know what you were doing before.
Nick Vita: It's definitely a little bit of masochism in there. So I worked in finance for years. I worked at some very large investment banks. I worked as an investor, primarily in health care. And I convinced a couple of friends to make an investment into a cannabis idea that wasn't yet a company. Now, what I would say is that this is probably the first trauma I ever had professionally. But the person we thought was going to run the business, turns out he was not a particularly ethical person. And so the vision that we had, which is let's find somebody who really understands how this business works from a regulatory perspective, fell apart very quickly. And two of our investors were Ben and Jerry, the ice cream guys, who are the most lovely people in the world. And they've got a colleague named Chuck. And they've been incredibly, incredibly strong supporters of ours. And I remember the first month that we had accepted capital and started deploying it and building out our business, and our first market was actually but our first license was in Washington, D.C. I had to call them and say, hey, we had a bit of a hiccup. And they kind of laughed and said, you know what, this happens with every business. And so don't.
Karson Humiston: They sent you some ice cream.
Nick Vita: Yeah, exactly. To feel better. I definitely eat my feelings. So that was a good move. But it was remarkable. And through it all, I mean, the number of stories I have, I tell people this. Every single step of the way was an exercise in just persistence and discipline. I mean, when we were first opened, I used to have to go around and look for an ATM that would dispense in fives. Because we were funding the business on such a tight shoestring, I didn't have $10. And if your account goes down to zero, they shut you down. So being in cannabis, I was very sensitive to the fact that I actually had a personal bank account. Eventually, Chase did shut that down. But the fact of the matter is, we were doing everything we can to keep the business moving in the right direction, and people made a lot of sacrifices. What state did you launch in? Gosh, so our first market was DC right our first first market to open was Arizona. So Tempe Arizona Tempe or Prescott, Arizona was it was our first market our first facility that opened on the retail side And then we had cultivation, we were always fully integrated. So we had sort of the panoply of operating models. But I moved from, I originally lived in New York, so I moved from New York to DC, from DC to Arizona, from Arizona to Massachusetts, from Massachusetts to Illinois, from Illinois back to New York again. So I literally followed the regulatory sort of conversation around the country. And I would not advise anybody to ever do that. It was awful. I think my friends thought I'd gone completely insane. My parents certainly thought I did. But it's how you had to do it. Because no one was going to do us any favors, and the business wasn't going to just fall out of the sky. And so I did a lot of sleeping on couches. And in Arizona, I lived in basically someone's guest house for, I want to say, eight months. In DC, I had to move back in home. with my parents and my mom and dad thought I had gone completely off my rocker and told all the neighbors and my high school friends that, oh, he's upstairs asleep in his high school bedroom. So I basically became the family bum for quite a long time.
Karson Humiston: That's one of the things that's funny that people talk about. It's like everyone's an overnight success 15 years later. It's like people see you and they see the cannabis and they think, this guy just must be a genius and on day one everything went according to plan. They don't see you moving back into your parents' house, sleeping on couches throughout Arizona, but every single entrepreneur has that story. Like I have yet to meet one entrepreneur that everything just like fell into their lap. I mean it is a shit ton of work and I think that's like what people don't recognize when starting any kind of business.
Nick Vita: I couldn't agree with you more. It is god-awful. You're like, why would anyone do it? We'll get to the positives. Why would someone do it? You know, I think a lot of people, in hindsight, it becomes addictive. But the fact is, we've been through COVID. We've been through the financial crisis twice. We've been through, you know, like every single thing you don't expect to happen has happened over the past 10 years. And maybe that's just life. And I didn't, I was completely, you know, I had my head in the sand. I didn't realize that was the way the world worked. But in addition to being federally illegal, in addition to having an incredibly difficult operating model, in addition to not having access to the capital markets, credit cards, whatever, we had all these other things happening. You had it too. And you remember what it's like to sit there and think to yourself, OK, so now you've got all these people that are waiting for you to make the right decision, to try to stay true to your values, to try to build an organization that matters, that's interesting to be a part of in an industry that should be incredibly exciting to be a part of. But the world just keeps on pushing back on you. And it's hard. It's the best part and the worst part about being part of an organization from the very beginning.
Karson Humiston: So as you guys have grown, obviously, I don't think you're sleeping on couches anymore. Sometimes. What moment did things start to click for the business? And was there, sometimes, for me, I can actually think to MJ Biz 2016, and so we were only a team of four people, and we only had $25,000. And so to go to this thing, MJ Biz, we had to spend five grand on the booth. We literally stayed at the Gold Coast, which is like the worst hotel in America, I swear to God. The ceilings were caving in, we were all sharing a room, and I was like, guys, we're spending all of our money. If we don't leave here with at least five or 10 clients, this business is over. But I think we can get enough business to do a million dollars next year. And in my head, when I think about what the moment was, we got like 38 clients at that MJBiz and that made us you know more than exceed our goal in 2017 so like to me when anyone asked me like what's the thing that went right I'm like you know what it was MJBiz 2017 so like not to plug MJBiz but it really was was there like I know it's maybe not for everyone like a definite thing but like did something happen where you're like shit we have a chance here
Nick Vita: So every time we won a license, it was like a massive psychological boost. Because everyone told us, you can't build a business with cannabis. There are no national players. You're going to go to jail. You're going to go to jail. It's like a dark other. Hey, by the way, I know you think you're doing the right thing, but you're actually going to go to prison. That's not that sweet. So I think that Of all of the moments where I felt like life had changed, and this is going to be super ironic because as it turns out, it may have been one of the worst financial things that ever happened to the company, but it was the most important paradigm shifting moment. We were always a bit like the bad news bears. We never had enough money. We never had enough bodies. Like we were literally sleeping on planes all the time just to try to keep the plates spinning and make sure everyone was doing what they're supposed to be doing. Because we were building it as we were driving the bus down the road. But when we won the license in New York, that was a big deal. Huge deal. I remember that. Because it's New York. It's one of the largest cannabis markets in the world. like we are off to the races bingo um now what just for context for the audience what year and time so this is 2015 we won the license january 1st 2016 we opened january 4th early january we opened the first dispensary in new york state in new york city which is in manhattan yep and like we had like 5 billion of you, I mean like an absurd amount of eyeballs, whatever those statistics are. I don't know what they mean anymore. It was a big deal. I was super proud and we'd done everything right. And then New York decided to slow roll their program and it's been like the baton death march and now we're finally about to have our first adult use sales. this, actually in December.
Karson Humiston: So talk about, what is that, like eight years later? Eight years later, you gotta be patient.
Nick Vita: Eight years later, here we go, you gotta be patient. Yeah, you gotta be patient. You gotta be patient and persistent and never give up. And there are a lot of times when, gosh, I could, if we sat down and you went year by year, I could probably find one of those moments each year. But for some reason, New York really matters a lot because there have been people who are better capitalized, who are certainly smarter than I am, who had spent a lot of time trying to sort of be a part of the process. And we just, you know, we ended up sort of threading that needle the way it needed to be sort of thread so that we ended up getting selected. And it was a remarkable moment and a testament to the team and a testament to sort of the tenacity of everybody who was there to help us. And I keep on, I always say this, we had help from a lot of people, right? People who were just intrigued by the business, who didn't necessarily want to get involved with it, but they were like, you know what, we understand what you're doing and why you're doing it. I'm happy to be a part of that, you know, help you be a part of that journey. So it was, gosh, there were so many moments, so many moments. I mean, like there are particular people who joined the firm and you were like, this is amazing. And then there were particular moments when we opened a door somewhere, we were like, this is amazing. It's sort of a weird type of addiction, right? Because through all the complexities of the business, you still have those crystallizing sort of events that just reorient you back to what matters most for what you're trying to build and what that vision should look like.
Karson Humiston: One of the really cool things about you and actually some of the other MSO leaders is that you're the founder and now still the CEO. So I think founder-led businesses are… I think once the founder leaves, I haven't seen too many crazy success stories, right? And a lot of times you bring the founder back. I think about some of the businesses that I admire so much like Airbnb, Brian Chesky, some of the most iconic businesses there, founder-led, the founders in it. Brian says that the biggest mistake he made was trying to delegate too much and being too high up, like he's in the weeds and it's a founder-led business and you can feel it. Like when you open Airbnb, you're delighted every day and I think that has something to do with it being such a founder-led business. It seems like you are in it with your team, like you're here at MJBiz, I saw you walking around yesterday, going to meetings, like sitting down with me, like how much do you think like being a founder-led business and you being there in the weeds with your team has helped you guys succeed so much?
Nick Vita: Well, look, I mean, I think we both have been incredibly lucky to be surrounded with the people that we work with. It's amazing how much trust and support and just mutual admiration you build over time, especially going through the things that we go through in any business, building any company. One of the most proud moments for me was when I recognized that the company was a living, breathing organism, with or without me. But the thing that I have always been very proud of and very grateful for is that in spite of the growth we've had, in spite of the way the business has changed, everyone knows what we're trying to be. And we're not perfect, right? We don't always get there, but we always come back to what we think is baseline. And what I can bring to conversations is an experience we had in 2013, an experience we had with a regulator in 2015, like a conversation that took place with XYZ politicians, you know, eight years ago, or with, you know, an operational failure or an operational sort of decision point. And that's something that you can't fake, like, and it's not translatable. So if you've built a business, you know, and one of the things I've really wrestled with my inclination at first was let's go find people with really big branded resumes. Let's go find people who've done it at X, Y, Z, gazillion dollar company. And they come to our business, and they're like, oh my god, this is way, way more complicated than they thought. And by the way, my budget is like 1% of what it used to be. How do I do all this with what you're giving me? And you're like, you just have to. You have to. You have to have people who have tenacity, who have a degree of hunger and interest. And then it's an element of sort of, internal drive because they just want to build something great. And so I love the fact that I've been able to, that I'm still in the role that I have. I won't always be here. But the fact is, I think by the time I no longer need to be here, it's because the business will have grown enough so that the institutional connective tissue that I bring to the conversation is no longer necessary to sort of never forget some of the hard lessons we've learned in the past.
Karson Humiston: in the culture that you established early on. There's like a million directions that I can take this conversation. I want to get back to the people a little bit and your point that you just made. One of the things that we learned at Vangst was Very similar to what you just said around. I categorize them as big company people. Yes. So we raised our Series B. We raised this $19 million Series B. We were so proud. You have to work really hard between the Series A to get to the Series B. Our investors were like, you guys got to go hire people from Indeed, ZipRecruiter, all these places you have the money to do it, go. So I was first-time founder and in my heart, I was like, I like the culture that we have right now. Yeah. And I don't know if these big company people are going to really fit in, but our board, these venture capitalists, were telling me this is what we should do. And I guess I didn't know what I was doing, so I did it. So we went out and hired. ridiculously expensive people from Indeed, all these places and then they came in and they were big company people and then they brought their big company people with them and all of a sudden last year around this time I woke up and I was looking around banks and I felt like a tourist CEO. I felt like literally I would go to someone and I would say to them like, hey, how do we want to think about doing this? We got to hire like six people. Bodies isn't always the answer. And so we, I always say that was our closest to death experience was hiring, and these aren't bad people, these are great people, but they're not early stage company people. Indeed is a $10 billion business, right? And so we had to like unwind and it was so painful, but it was a good lesson in what I look for in people to be advanced. So I'm curious for you with the cannabis, what do you look for when you're hiring your team? What are those traits that you look for? Who are the people that are going to be super successful when they come in the door and like what do you and your team look for as you grow because you're always adding new people?
Nick Vita: So look, everything you just said is a lesson, is part of the lesson set that I've experienced personally. And I can't tell you how hard that moment is when you realize, because you have people around you who you trust. It really sucks. It super sucks, right? You have people around you who you trust, who've made a bet on you, and yet you're also being asked to sort of change the way you do things, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it may not be the right moment for it. And I think that's very hard for someone to see from the outside looking in when you're not involved in every single day-to-day, you know, moment. And so, you know, I look for people who, First of all, I'm glad if someone went to school. I'm glad if someone had experience. But what matters to me the most is when something goes wrong, are they going to pick up the phone? Are they going to be there? When something goes wrong, are they going to crumble? Or are they going to say, you know what? We can do this better. When something goes wrong, or when something goes right, can we do it better? Are they being objective? Are they interested? Are they trustworthy? But not in an integrity way. I expect everyone to have integrity. I'm falling flat on my face right now, and I'm going to need you to pull a rabbit out of a hat. Can we do it together? Or is this the rabbit out of the hat that we need to pull out? I've just always been very fortunate to be surrounded by people who took an interest in helping to mentor me, but that mentorship, what I didn't realize was a partnership. There's not a single person on the team who I interact with who I wouldn't lay down in traffic for, because I have that much respect for them as individuals, as professionals, and I'm not looking for, I mean, you know, like when I worked in finance, they're like, oh, where did you go to school and did you get your MBA? It's like, I couldn't give, I worked with those people. They're great for some things. But that's not who I need. Who I need is somebody who's going to wake up every day and grind it out and do their very best. And remember that we are in the service-based business. We manufacture products that have to be manufactured well. They're going into people's bodies. We serve people day to day at the point of sale. And then there's, let's call it the corporate structure. And the corporate structure, in my mind, exists to support the people in the facilities. And the people in the facilities are the cultivators, the manufacturers, basically the bud tenders. Whatever term of art you want to use, it's an inverted pyramid. And so, for me, you know, I… We went to dinner last night. I went to dinner last night with some colleagues. I really enjoyed it. It was very funny. And for me, it was a very honest sort of discussion about a whole range of things that was refreshing because I don't think I could have had a conversation like that at Goldman Sachs. And it's not because Goldman isn't a great company. It's because you just don't say some things to the people you work with. You work for. Yeah, or work for. that part of your personality isn't necessarily what gets highlighted in the role that you're playing. Whereas here, when you're building a business, everything gets thrown in. It's your whole self. And some people like that, and some people don't. And if you're looking to delegate everything all the time, and not sort of get into the weeds, and frankly, not get your ass kicked a little bit, this is not the right industry for you, and this is probably not the right company for you, and you can't take it personally.
Karson Humiston: Yeah, and there's tons of companies where you can be a little more gated.
Nick Vita: Are you kidding me? You can mail it in. Mail it in. It's a great way to put it. People show up to work every day and it's a punch card. And there are plenty of industries where they're so big, it's just like… Don't do anything new. God, who are we talking to? We were talking to somebody last night. Don't do anything new. Just sit there. Just come in, come to work, and process this. He was talking about how he works for a much larger company now. This is a guy who's not directly in the industry, and he was telling a story about how He called his IT team and his phone somehow got disconnected and they were like, why do you need your phone over the weekend? He's like, what are you talking about? Have you ever been in a situation where you don't need to- You don't have your phone for an hour. No.
Karson Humiston: I mean- I can't even deal with it when the Wi-Fi doesn't work on the plane.
Nick Vita: No, it's completely inconvenient because you land and there's 6,000 emails and there are like 4,000 problems, right?
Karson Humiston: And it's better to just have them continuously come in throughout the flight.
Nick Vita: Yeah, if you're going to beat me up, beat me up all day long so I become numb, don't sucker punch me at the end of the day when I'm trying to go to sleep. Which, by the way, is not going to be a good night's sleep anyway, because the phone's still going to ring. But no, it is a very special person. And having experienced what I've experienced as the first employee, I have an enormous amount of respect for anybody who guts it out. For me, that's the qualifier. Can you gut it out? Can you maintain your composure and your partnership and your appreciation for the people you're with and the people you serve in spite of not having a great day, in spite of having somebody come up and drop a big turd on your plate just because they decided today that was going to happen. It's a really funny thing, but when you find people like that, it's humbling.
Karson Humiston: like sitting here right now at you know same thing we went we went out to a dinner and I was like the people that are still sitting here I think you have it because we've really gotten beat up the last few years I mean like crazy things have happened and so like I think that you're part of the one percent who can gut it out so let's we're almost to the other side of the hump you know for for me sometimes I feel a little bit especially like the last two years I'll say to our team like the people who can make it through this tough time are going to be such stronger businesses, and they're going to thrive. But sometimes I hear myself saying that, and I'm like, is everyone going to believe me? Because I've been saying this for like two or three years. So how do you manage to continue to motivate your team in such a hard environment? And I'm genuinely asking this for advice, because I feel like I can do a better job. I actually heard about someone on the team who was like, You know, Carson's been saying for like three years that things are going to get better and those who stick it out are going to win big, but like when the hell is that going to happen? I got to leave? So I was like, shoot, I must not have been motivating that person well enough, you know?
Nick Vita: So look, I mean, everybody who's ever worked with things or for things that I've encountered have said the same thing. You're an inspirational leader, but you lead by example. There's nothing I would ask anybody on the team to do that I wouldn't do myself. And fortunately, because I was there at the beginning, I actually have done most of those jobs. I used to shake. I was a cultivator. I tried to figure out how to use the extractors. I was there when the one in DC broke, and we're staring at it like Zoolander. It's in the computer. I think this is where your question about who do you hire really matters. Because when you hire somebody that also shares the same vision, you're going to work towards it. I'll make a sports analogy. We actually have a lot of athletes on our team. How many games start off where you have a commanding lead and it stays that way? Never, right? If it does, maybe it happens to Messi sometimes, but most times it's a dogfight until the very last minute. There is nothing worth building, there's nothing worth creating. Like the Bills last weekend, Buffalo. Boom, there you go. Lot big, sad. Yeah, you talk to Elon Musk. Next year. Next year, it's always next year. But, you know, like Elon Musk, what's fascinating to me about him, right, is that he's built businesses, but he's actually taken the art of breaking something and experiencing setback and turning it into the asset. So when they send up a rocket with the intention of exploding it, it's no longer, oh my God, it exploded. This is what we wanted to happen. We now found out what broke. I feel like that mentality is something that, Anybody in the leadership position, when we see something terrible happen or something difficult or something challenging, whatever it is, it's like, I am so glad it happened now in this way so that we can be ahead of it and we can find a solution. I like that. I like framing it that way. You can find an answer to any problem if given enough time. And that last piece for us, it's really the board and investors that dictates what our timeline looks like. And so the grateful, and a deep appreciation that I have for everybody, not just the team, but also the supporters of the organization. Oh my God, I mean, again, lay down a track for these people. Why? Because they give me a shot. What world do I live in where I could ever be the CEO of a company that does over half a billion dollars in revenue, and we have thousands of employees, and they're amazing, excuse me, and I get a little worked up there. But the fact is, you know, The experience that I've had has been a series of fortunate, amazing moments that we always kid around. This is going to be a great book someday because you can't believe the stuff we've encountered every single day. It's compressed into a very, very small timeline in the grand scheme of things. I don't know. It's a fair question and a really intelligent question because how do I keep people motivated? I just don't, frankly, I don't stop, right? And if I do, like it's a bad day. Like I just don't, I can't. Stamina. Yeah, I just don't, I don't feel like I have earned the right to slow down or to mail it in or do any of these things because everyone else is working so hard and that inspires me to work harder.
Karson Humiston: And when you think about it, anytime I'm like, oh man, I just kind of want to stop for the day, I think, what are our competitors doing out there right now? I could be doing more. And I do feel like that's something that a lot of people in your shoes have in common. They just don't give up. And so I always say to you know, people, I can't believe people ask me for advice, but in the off times that they do, I'm like, look, I don't have like that many secrets. I just will say work harder than everybody else. It like is the one thing, even everyone that came on this podcast today, you know, the, the most, the most successful people in cannabis are coming through here on this podcast. And I mean, these guys have all been listening, the team here, the one thread that everyone has in common is that they just don't stop because they want to be the best that badly. I know we're coming up on time. We're going to go five minutes over just to let everybody know. I want to talk about the rebrand. Oh, yeah. So walk me through it. I was super surprised when I woke up and looked at my phone one day and saw Columbia Care is now the cannabis. So how did this all come about? I mean, I love it. I just want to hear about what made this happen.
Nick Vita: It's a really very natural story. Columbia Care, actually, I came up with. And I came up with it because back when we used to apply for licenses, what I realized is that every state has a Columbia. So there's a Columbia, Maryland. There's a Columbia, New York. There's a Columbia, Ohio. There are Columbias in every single state. No way. Yeah. So when we got to apply, we got to apply as a local, kind of a quasi-local entity. Super smart. And also, it was medical back then. So we kind of looked at the landscape. There are a lot of names out there that wouldn't sit well with regulators back in 2015. And so we had to find a name that wasn't going to be a detriment to our application process. It was a really important first step because I think it's established sort of the tenets of quality and manufacturing and thinking about our products as a medicine rather than just something that's recreational. And I don't mean that in a pejorative way. I just mean that when you take a medicine, you have an expectation that it is at the absolute peak of quality. And so whether it's an adult use product or medical product, it should be there, right? We owe that to the communities we serve. And so when I think about sort of over the past five years how the business has changed, how the market has changed, how things become more adult use oriented, we began rolling out the cannabis as a retail store. And we always wanted to break apart our product brands from our retail setting. So it was a really informative period of time where we were able to see how our customers, our patients, our employees interacted with cannabis. And what we realized is that being unapologetic, being exactly who we want it to be, right? When you're looking for expertise, where do you go? You go to the cannabis, right? And, you know, not to mention the swag is very cool.
Karson Humiston: Yeah, the swag looks, we got the swag.
Nick Vita: Yeah, I mean, it rocks.
Karson Humiston: It's almost as cool as ours.
Nick Vita: Oh, it is. Actually, I really like yours. Thank you. I really like it. Everyone's biased towards their own.
Karson Humiston: Yeah. And if you're not biased towards your own brand, you should probably do a rebrand.
Nick Vita: I agree with that. I agree with that. And you know, Columbia Care was great for what it was, but cannabis is where we're going. We don't have to get rid of Columbia Care for medical products or something like that. But the cannabis resonated with the communities. It resonated with our employees a lot. And it resonated with sort of the, let's call it the cultural values of where we want it to be. And so for us, that rebrand was something the team was very enthusiastic to do. Everyone at the organization was supportive. And from a recruitment perspective, from just an awareness perspective, it's like onomatopoeia, right? It is what it sounds like it is. And so the same thing, like what are we? We're cannabis, right? What is our company? It's cannabis. Where do you go if you really want sort of the best products and you want to have a really interesting conversation about X, Y, Z? You go to cannabis.
Karson Humiston: And I love it from a recruitment standpoint. I'm excited to work with Janet next year to help you guys find some people. So my last final question is, we're sitting here in November 2023. I hope that next year, November 2024, you'll come back on the podcast. We'll see where we caught up. But I'm doing this kind of crystal balling. And then next year, we'll see where we're right. But OK, we're sitting here. November 2024, what do you think has happened in the cannabis industry next year? Your crystal ball predictions. And this is on the record, so next year we'll see if you're right.
Nick Vita: This is big. There's a scorecard. There's a scorecard. There's a scorecard. So I'm going to, look, I actually try not to be a political prognosticator because I'm terrible at it. But I think we have schedule three affirmed. And I think for the right reasons. Please. Yeah. I think New York is a up and coming sort of attractive cannabis market for operators for the first time ever. I think you have additional states making decisions, conservative states making decisions to convert to medical and then adult use. I think you have Congress off the heels of a Schedule III move begin to think about sort of doing something at the legislative level to kind of crystallize some of the loose ends that have not yet been tied up on cannabis as a Schedule III product. I think you have the first movement towards a capital markets normalization. So I think the risk profile associated with investing in cannabis changes dramatically. And I think you begin to see cannabis sort of move into a frame of reference that is much more akin to a normal industry. And I think you start seeing strategic partners come in. So I think the next year- Really good year.
Karson Humiston: Yeah, I think it's a very- We're going to be fired up next year. We're going to have a way bigger suite if all that happens.
Nick Vita: You know what? Two bedrooms. Don't do it. Don't do it. I'm kidding. Keep it. This is the perfect size. This is perfect. Yeah, we don't need- We don't need the room next door. No.
Karson Humiston: We might have to do two podcasts at the same time. We'll be so busy.
Nick Vita: That would be bold. That would be bold. So I think it's like I think it's a I think it's a seminal year And I think it's more so than we've seen in the past five six years And I think that's why this year is gonna catch so many people by surprise in a positive way What I hope it means is that a lot of people who are reluctant to come into cannabis to think about it as a career Think about it as an opportunity to be an entrepreneur. I like to think that those fears and concerns are mitigated somewhat so that the pool and the universe of supporters of what we're trying to do actually expands into new ground.
Karson Humiston: And so many new jobs, too. If you think about 280 going away and all of that capital, that cash flow that could go back into the businesses. I mean, as you know, I'm sure one of your largest expenses is labor. So to be able to hire more people, bring in exceptional talent, like we're super optimistic that next year could be the biggest job creator. The most jobs created in a year for cannabis. So hopefully we can do a lot of great hiring together and keep building the team. So Nick, thank you so much for being here. It was awesome to have you and I can't wait to have you again.
Nick Vita: Yeah, great to see you.