Transporting a quarter-million dollars in your mom's Prius is not a good idea Customers must purchase cannabis with cash because federal laws prevent credit card companies from processing cannabis sales. Excess cash is a serious security risk in the dispensary and while it is being transported. Abbe Schnibbe the Co-Founder and CEO of Plymouth Armor Group, New England’s Leading Cannabis Cash and Product Transporter joins Karson Humiston to explain how they manage North East cannabis companies' transportation logistics for both cash and product. Produced by PodConx Proud To Work In Cannabis - https://podconx.com/podcasts/proud-to-work-in-cannabis Karson Humiston - https://podconx.com/guests/karson-humiston Vangst - https://vangst.com/ Plymouth Armor Group - https://www.plymoutharmorgroup.com/ Abbe Schnibbe - https://podconx.com/guests/abbe-schnibbe
Transporting a quarter-million dollars in your mom's Prius is not a good idea
Customers must purchase cannabis with cash because federal laws prevent credit card companies from processing cannabis sales. Excess cash is a serious security risk in the dispensary and while it is being transported. Abbe Schnibbe the Co-Founder and CEO of Plymouth Armor Group, New England’s Leading Cannabis Cash and Product Transporter joins Karson Humiston to explain how they manage North East cannabis companies' transportation logistics for both cash and product.
Proud To Work In Cannabis - https://podconx.com/podcasts/proud-to-work-in-cannabis
Karson Humiston - https://podconx.com/guests/karson-humiston
Vangst - https://vangst.com/
Plymouth Armor Group - https://www.plymoutharmorgroup.com/
Abbe Schnibbe - https://podconx.com/guests/abbe-schnibbe
[00:00:00]
Abbe Schnibbe: I'm Abby, CEO and co-founder of Plymouth armor group. And I'm proud to work in cannabis because every day I know my every action is working to overturn the negative impacts of the war on drugs and empowering women in leadership positions in business.
Karson Humiston: Hey everybody. And welcome to the proud to work in cannabis podcast. I'm your host, Carson homicide and the founder and CEO of . And today I am very excited to have a very special guest with us. Please help me welcome Abby . Abby is the co-founder and CEO of Plymouth armor group. And actually this is a really exciting intro because Claire Malone.
Of leaf link made this connection and said,, you're two women in the industry that haven't met yet. So this is actually Abby and my first time ever connecting, believe it or not. And Abby, I'm so happy to have you here today. Thank you so much for joining me.
Abbe Schnibbe: You bet. I'm so happy to be here.
Karson Humiston: So Abby, let's jump right in. Give us a story. How did you decide to start this company? How did you decide to get into the cannabis?
Abbe Schnibbe: Yeah, great [00:01:00] question. So I actually have sort of a funky, weird, journey to the canvas industry, like the rest of us. Right. So we actually came from the non-profit world, working in social equity and DEI work specifically in education, across the country. So DEI and social equity work has always been a huge passion of mine.
And wanting to be a part of a startup first enforced most was also just a, a weird glutton for punishment desire. It was wanted and wanted to get into the cannabis space, particularly one to continue my social equity work and to, as both a medical patient, myself and having many family members who I have seen their lives change because of medical cannabis.
I just wanted to be a part of it. And part of making the change on so many different levels. So I was. Originally, approached by one of our other, co-founders looking for what he calls sort of a Navy seal, somebody that can , do it all, have a problem and find a solution. And that was me. We hit it off pretty quickly.
And, from there we, we started Plymouth pharma group, which is a third party transporter company here in massive. More or less, we do logistics. We move all cannabis cash and all cannabis [00:02:00] product itself. And our budget we'll be opening our, a large distribution center out in central mass. So we can really have the whole supply chain solution for folks.
But in the beginning, really, there was no one like us in Massachusetts or in new England. And we saw that as an opportunity. One of our other co-founders did a lot of work in cannabis security, and he said time and time again. Sit across the table from folks all over the country and say, what's your plan for cannabis transportation?
And he'd often get the deer in the headlights look of, oh shoot. We never thought of that. And so that sort of started the idea of gee that , might be the niche that would be perfect for us. Using both his security background in my sort of logistics, operations, get things done, background together.
We, launched in fall of 2018 and now we're in three states and opening distribution centers and sky's the limit. So it's been a really exciting four years.
Karson Humiston: Whoa. So, so, so you and your co-founder decide that you're going to marry these experiences and start a business and probably the, one of the hardest sectors of cannabis, right? Moving money. How was the process like of just getting the [00:03:00] business off the ground? Like, like take us through idea. Light bulb, aha.
Moment to we're transporting cash across.
Abbe Schnibbe: Yeah, right. Well obviously, we could have a whole podcast on finding investment in the cannabis space, but I'll say that with step one, as we know it was I'll, I'll be Frank having a white male next to me and doing all of that, made it a heck of a lot easier. I'm now trying to start another company that I'm on the board of on top of it.
And that's all women run and owned. And I got to say the process has not been nearly as, as easy from a funding standpoint, but like, Whole nother podcast. And we can talk about that piece. But really first and foremost it was acquiring trucks, outfitting them in regards to being fully armored. You think of the Loomis Brinks gardens of the world, but we had to tailor this to cannabis and be far less in your face.
Right. Very discreet. So, it was going to the drawing board of how do we actually create compliant? Trucks that can do this in the most safe and secure way. Second part was certification. So your average cannabis company, state by state, right. Has to get their license to transport the product.
We also had to get additional licenses to even be [00:04:00] cash transporters. Luckily that process isn't nearly as long and arduous as it is here in Massachusetts for a cannabis license, but still had to get that first and foremost. So we started out with a fleet of. Now that fleet has, more than quadruple that at this point.
But really the hardest part being in little old Massachusetts was getting that initial license, getting the space and finding vehicles in the first place to armor them from there. It was, brand development and reaching out to folks and the large way that we did that.
Advocacy on the regulatory side of things. So we were sitting with the cannabis control commissioners and telling them about the risks that we were seeing at the time in Massachusetts, there were no requirements around transporting cash, and we were hearing horror stories of like 21 year olds in there.
Their parents Prius transporting a quarter, a million dollars cash that was sitting on the passenger's seat. Right. Not to mention all the
Karson Humiston: Horrifying horrifying.
Abbe Schnibbe: And so we were like, we need a solution. We have that solution, like I said, our other founder has extensive background insecurity. And so he brought that expertise.
I brought the let's figure
it
out,
Karson Humiston: I want to double click on something before we move on. When you go to the [00:05:00] regulators and you say, based on how this program is set up, you have 21 year olds driving their mom's Prius, hoarding, a quarter million dollars around town. we need a solution.
What did the regulators say to you?
Abbe Schnibbe: Yeah. Good, good. A good question. I mean, it's often like doing a little dance around regulators because you also know that they're new to this, right? We all are, it was very early in the industry. , but ultimately , it was an afterthought for them. There was so much focus on retail security, so much focus on cultivation, security.
Focused on the product transport itself. And no one really thought about the implications of the cash and cash and transit. And so I definitely saw eyebrows raise and eyes wide open with a lot of these case studies we were showing from across the country and here in Massachusetts. And they realized pretty immediately that this was an urgent.
Right. And so from both us getting off the ground and doing those same presentations to retailers themselves, and also from the advocacy level, we now in Massachusetts, you're required to use some form of armor transporter like us so that [00:06:00] we can. Drive home, the public safety aspect of all of this.
And really I came to it as, from the standpoint of saying, listen, , I am so passionate about legitimizing, this industry, and this is one way that we can for the folks that are naysayers for the folks that are rooted in the stigma around crime and all of those things, , let's up the ante on how we do cash transport so that everyone feels that much more comfortable and we increase the legitimacy that much more.
So, yeah, they were a little baffled, I would say. But we drove home the point , and quickly they made moves. And so to wait.
Karson Humiston: All right. So the regulators say, whoa, , this is a need. You've got your trucks. They're safe. They're ready to go. Now it's time to start reaching out to retailers in cultivation facilities. H, how did you go about that process of, of landing the first customers to engage you, to transfer the cash?
Abbe Schnibbe: Absolutely. So the first two or three customers we had where the first adult use retail stores in Massachusetts. And so that was not to say an easy sell, but we were going to those. Knowing that they were going to be the first to open knowing that they were going to be stockpiling, quarter of a [00:07:00] million dollars a day, at least.
Right. And so to them, , showing that data and opening up with that, it was a no brainer for them of like, we don't want to be headlines in the Boston globe, day one from some sort of cash related incidents. So absolutely we need this. Now, when that happened. They actually got opened before we were fully ready to be operational.
So next thing you know, my phone's ringing off the hook saying, how soon are you ready? How soon are you ready? So I had to expedite our whole rollout of our, first, maiden voyage of transport. It's about 45 days. And we. Thanks. Go and go and go in so that we can start working with those folks.
Now, having them as clients at the time was then a huge eye-opener for so many retailers and cultivators across the state. Right. Of like, okay, they're doing it. We probably should too. But mostly for me, it was, your classic networking, showing up old school sales type things. And really painting the picture to folks of like, we are here to protect you.
The thing I always say is no one likes logistics. I'm just a weirdo who does it's more headaches than you ever want to deal with. And, and the vast majority of folks, [00:08:00] they didn't want this headache on their plate. Right. And they wanted that peace of mind knowing that twice, three times a week, the store was going to be cleared out of cash.
so That's really how we went about it. And then over the course of. Really the two years that followed, we were really able to get so many of those wholesale customers because , they were already vertically integrated or, we really had that brand recognition in that trust because of our cash services that once we got fully licensed for product folks already knew us, knew we were there.
And were honestly, once again, calling me saying, how soon can you do , my cannabis as well? Cause I don't want to buy any trucks. So,
Karson Humiston: I love businesses where it just, it's such a no brainer. It solves such a need, right? Like, it's like, they're calling you saying how quickly can you get here? The fact that we're even talking about the fact that you have people driving around in, on our armored cars, maybe millions of dollars a couple of years ago is just like so crazy.
So I'm so happy that you guys started this company. All right. So, all right, , how do you go about finding the drivers, making sure that the drivers are trained in how to manage this [00:09:00] amount of cash?
Abbe Schnibbe: Absolutely. So one thing that we are very dedicated to implement the army group is veterans. So we do both, hiring and recruitment of veterans, but then also couple that with our equity work in regards to educating veterans on access to medical cannabis and you name it so many different things, but we primarily hire veterans and in some cases, retired law enforcement because we know they already come with that tactical training and expertise.
To be able to read situations and know if they're in a bad situation, know how to get out of them. So that was really our recruitment efforts was towards veteran orgs specifically and veteran recruitment organizations, you name it. And then. From there, training was in-depth and intense and is getting better every year.
But like I said, I had that peace of mind of knowing that those folks already came with that expertise. So, today we still recruit mostly veterans or folks that are security professionals or retired law enforcement folks that are looking at. Based, I can't tell you how many folks that work for me have changed their minds in regards to cannabis and how they feel about it just from being immersed , in the industry.
And that's also a [00:10:00] beautiful thing to see and, and, and a positive impact that I'd never really thought of, what happened as a result of our company, but we're committed to paying a livable wage here in Massachusetts recruiting vets and, and, full benefits. And I find that I have incredible retention because we have folks that are paid well, treated well, know they're valued and want to stay with the company.
So cheesy and I'm sure some folks will listen to this and roll their eyes. But like everyone at Plymouth armor group believes that we have a PAG family. Like it's so close. And even as we grow, we still have that, culture that I hope we don't lose and I'm going to work so hard to keep as we continue to grow.
But yeah, I think , it was all that's first. And then from there folks knowing that we were great place to work, I can't get like, like I said to you, but I have too many applicants at this point, so it's a good problem to
Karson Humiston: And that's it. It's unbelievable. And it's definitely a Testament to your leadership because again, it's very hard to recruit drivers and retain drivers, and we see this across, not just the cannabis industry, but lots of industries. So that's unbelievable to hear. So if you're listening to this and anybody that's looking for [00:11:00] a better driving job we know exactly what is.
So, all right, so, so you get Massachusetts up and running and then you decide obviously why stop with Massachusetts time to go to more states, take us through the process of determining which states to go into next and how you went about the expanse.
Abbe Schnibbe: Absolutely. So being in new England , the natural, like logistics brain of mine was, we can actually use our existing network and infrastructure to support surrounding states. So one of the first states we started actually transporting cannabis itself in was New Hampshire. At the time we didn't need a license to do that, right.
We just needed to agent, badge our careers to be able to do it from different establishments. So. Very early on. We started off with transporting for one MSO in New Hampshire. And at that time, where did that come from? That came from our relationships in Massachusetts, right. Folks calling me and saying, Hey, are you operational in this state?
Hey, are your operational in this state? And then that, as that capacity more and more, I was like, we've got to move faster than we thought on multi-state expansion. So the Hampshire was first and then in Connecticut very quickly, we were able to service the entire [00:12:00] state of Connecticut for those medical dispensaries that were open from our hub.
In Massachusetts, we were not transporting anything across state lines. I'll reiterate that for all the regulators out there. But you know, we were able to do any, all of our operations within the state and then start and end our day back in Massachusetts. . And so , the Canadian. Was really extension of customers from Massachusetts that were already in Connecticut.
Once those Connecticut folks found out that they were using us and we were doing all sorts of marketing blasts and type of things in Connecticut, then many more retailers in Connecticut came on board, and same thing happened in little old Rola Rhode Island, even though the market's so small, they always make the joke.
We have like 80% of the market, but you can pretty much count it on one hand. But still so the next big goal is New Jersey and New York, New York being a. Logistics mountain to tackle, but we're excited about it. And we really know that we're going to be that much more successful in rolling that out in the beginning because of our partnership with leaf link and shout out to Claire.
Karson Humiston: Yeah, let's talk a little bit about the partnership with leaf Lang for the audience , that doesn't know about the partnership.
Abbe Schnibbe: Yeah. So Leafly being the , B2B [00:13:00] wholesale platform, right? It's the software in which they can facilitate all sorts of wholesale purchases as well as wholesale financing and the logistics solution. So on the software you're able to, as a retailer, buy from a wholesaler and then also schedule the transport.
Now leaf link cannot do that. Without a partner that is licensed to transport cannabis in each state. So as they go into new states, into new markets, they do their due diligence on who are the best transporters out there. And ultimately it came down to us, which I was thrilled to hear. And I knew it to be true, but you know, that was bias.
So we launched on September 1st, 2021 spent. I'm a really ramping up and onboarding and beginning sales to launch on September 1st. And our partnership, really, any orders that are placed on leaf link are moved by Plymouth Armour group. In addition to that, through both. There are services that they provide for retail inventory fulfillment is where well it's just brand storage and fulfillment distribution.
We are able to not only move everything for them, but also through our distribution center, that's opening very soon. We'll be able to [00:14:00] house any. Excess product that may be cultivators have, as they're waiting to send the processors or they're just waiting to sell, sell, or it's been sold. And they're just waiting for the folks to say, Hey, this is what we can take it for retailers, and the biggest problem we have here in Massachusetts is volt size everybody's volts is like the size of my closet. Big. So, we're going to be starting to do retail fulfillment as well, where you're housing, mostly your inventory for the store with us, and then we pick and pack based on what you need.
And then lastly, for brands as well, keeping some of these big brands that are national brands that need a huge amount of space for their products and distribution center. Like I said, whether it's sold or not, we can hold it until it's ready to go. So really that has always been a vision of what I wanted Plymouth armor group to do and what the next step was.
And leave link has helped just like catalyze that so much faster and to have. Such a strong team of, of really great folks from all over the country , I don't need to reinvent the wheel really is a bottom line. I spent many hours thinking about , how I was going to, develop some sort of software platform.
And then I realized, why am I doing this? It already exists. And I can just make a strong partnership with somebody.
Karson Humiston: Yes. And it's just [00:15:00] crazy, like what a small industry and world it is. , how great partnerships can be. I mean, I I'm sure. It's extremely helpful for their clients as well to have you guys there and have a reliable partner, switching gears a little bit we didn't talk a ton about your background, but I I'm.
I think you mentioned earlier that you're a first time founder and CEO.
So, so let's talk a little bit about just challenges is scaling as a first time, founder and CEO, it's something that I deal with all the time and I'm sure soon enough, you and I will go grab drinks and talk about. Talk for a lot longer than we can fit in on this podcast, but what have been some of the challenges as a first time founder building and scaling an extremely complicated business.
Abbe Schnibbe: So first to back up, I started out as VP of operations and then went to COO within like three to four months. And then CEO, just as of September of this past year I was pretty much operating as such cause we, that position wasn't filled. But finally it was like, Hey, I can't be CEO and COO it's kind of a little bit, so, let's make this official so that's been [00:16:00] sort of my trajectory with the company rule wise.
And I got to say, just to mention this as an aside, I think a lot of those things would have happened faster. But I, was building the confidence within myself, . That I should've had from day one, but, grew moment over time. But I mean, I would say the biggest shift.
In general. I, everyone's gonna probably nod their head at this, but it's navigating regulatory compliance, right? Like logistics and transportation companies are not new. It's adding that regulatory compliant level on top of it. So what your typical logistics company experiences for overhead and costs and things like that?
You might as well double it for us. So that's one thing I think , the other biggest challenge I've found over the years is insurance cannabis insurance is brutal as we all know, but the biggest piece that a lot of folks don't realize is that cannabis and trends. Is a whole nother ball game , in the insurance world.
So I have done all the research bounced around for many different, policies finding the right fit. And finally, today, I feel like we're at that place, but needing an insurance plan to scale with me was , the challenge, right? Every month I was needing to increase [00:17:00] my limits, increase my limits, and at certain point was running into roadblocks.
So, that was a nightmare to say the least, but I'd say, I mean, the biggest thing for me is. Being being there from the beginning changes hard but also good. And I think my hardest thing for me personally, was letting go, there was a point in 2018 where I was everything from HR to taking out the trash, to, training drivers, to, to training finance people, to, everything, which was.
Stressful and intense and 120 hour weeks and you name it. But I loved it because I thrive on that kind of thing. But then as you grow and you hire more staff, it's, it's stepping back right. And trusting people and that you hired the right person to take the, take the lead from there. And so, I, I do have a good sense of FOMO every once in a while I pop into some of our like ops check-ins every week, different things.
Cause I just miss being a part of them. But so I think. That's the biggest thing. And then, we had the pandemic about being two years in. Being open. And I'm lucky that I had, some really great investors that were willing to help us get through that.
I mean, we [00:18:00] lost 50% of our business in Massachusetts when adult use was considered not essential. And so that was a whole nother challenge as a founder that I think, none of us prepared for. But as made me stronger for it it's the cannabis industry. Every day's a challenge every day we have to pivot and change.
Then you had the pandemic on top of it. And I feel like I'm Bulletproof at this point. Like bring it, I, give you the.
Karson Humiston: Yeah.
I mean, it like that. Adding, adding. Cannabis. And then just how hard operating cannabis businesses is certainly a challenge for everybody. And I thought that was a great point. You just made about letting go. Actually, one thing that Claire baloney brought up earlier episode was an article she'd read called letting go of your leg.
I was talking about. Yeah, founders early employees are, constantly should be working themselves out of a job if your company company's scaling and going in the right direction. But again, I think it's so much easier said than done, but if from everything that that we're hearing here, it's not like you've done a great job at this.
And you guys are scaling, scaling really nicely. Last question. [00:19:00] Last question for you is Berg people that are out there that maybe just landed a new job in cannabis. And it's, first, first week or first. What kind of advice would you get for that and to be successful in this industry and certainly been very successful.
So, so what kind of advice would you give to people?
Abbe Schnibbe: I think first and foremost, I say this to folks all the time and just because it's cannabis doesn't mean you don't have the skills and you're not already worthy. Whatever it is that your area of expertise is, it's going to apply here and it's going to translate. So, , if the anxiety is about it's the cannabis.
So new, I don't know anything, take that off the table completely and know that you can learn all the things you need to know about cannabis, specific things. But you, you have value. You have the knowledge, you have the skills already. It's translating that into this industry. The second advice I give every single person under the sun is read the regulations.
It's not sexy. It's not fun. It's a lot of legal jargon, but particularly if you're trying to work [00:20:00] in, in, Companies that are actually , are licensed, right by each state, by state you, if you're sitting in an interview with somebody who's never been in cannabis before, and you read the regs, and if you at least have a basic understanding of how you believe that company needs to operate from a compliant manner and the other person in that interview has not, it's going to set yourself apart,
a hundred percent. So if you can understand, just like compliance and the regulatory environment and how important that is. And know that you already had the skills to just do the job that you probably thought you're applying to in the first place, right. That you could do. You got this, you got this.
So I think, come one, come all we need you. We need everyone with all the brilliance and skills in this industry know that you've got it. And we can teach you and you can learn the specifics that you need to get there.
Karson Humiston: We like to say like I didn't, we, it, every week on the pockets, the industry is, is as small today as it will ever be. So there's tons of opportunity. Just look at, I mean, Abby started a business when cleaning from scratch and I was one of the leaders on the east coast and, and, and, there's, if you're willing to work [00:21:00] hard and roll up your sleeves and get in there and install true problems with customers, there are so many opportunities for entrepreneurial Rosen entrepreneurs.
I find in this industry, very excited to help each other to build the industry. So Abby. Amazing avenue on the show today. Congratulations on everything you're doing and building. And I can't wait to meet up in real life. Snowden.
Abbe Schnibbe: Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. And please everybody listening and feel free to check us out. Plymouth Arma group. We're on all the social media is check out our website and particularly if you're interested in working for us the careers page on our website will take you right to our application.
Thank you so much, Carson.