"Navigating Highs and Lows with Aaron Miles: Verano's Investment Strategy Unveiled"
In the latest episode of the "Proud to Work in Cannabis" podcast, listeners were treated to an engaging and insightful conversation with Aaron Miles, the Chief Investment Officer at Verano.
Aaron talks to Karson Humiston about his unexpected journey into the cannabis industry, which began with a serendipitous text message while celebrating his 40th birthday in Italy. Despite initial skepticism, Aaron's curiosity about the industry's potential led him to pivot from a traditional corporate path at Pier One Imports to the dynamic world of cannabis at Cresco Labs, and eventually to his current role at Verano.
Throughout the episode, Aaron provided a candid look into the complexities of taking a cannabis company public, the nuances of navigating the industry's unique challenges, and the strategic moves Verano has made to position itself for future opportunities, including uplisting to the CSE. He emphasized the importance of being prepared for the U.S. capital markets and the potential impact of federal legislative changes on the industry.
Aaron also shared his personal connection to the medicinal benefits of cannabis, reflecting on a family member's struggle with addiction and how it shaped his perspective on the plant's potential as a safer alternative to opiates.
The episode concluded with a discussion on the current scale of Verano, its operations across multiple states, and Aaron's optimistic outlook on the future of cannabis legislation. His passion for the industry was evident as he spoke about the broader implications of cannabis legalization, including job creation, community investment, and the potential for groundbreaking medical research. https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaron-miles/ https://www.verano.com/
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:00 - Podcast Introduction
00:00:11 - Attempting to Connect with Aaron Miles
00:00:28 - Aaron's Health and Company Challenges
00:00:44 - Post-MJBiz Plague and COVID
00:01:15 - Aaron's History with MJBiz
00:01:26 - Comparing MJBiz Attendance
00:01:36 - Aaron's Role as Chief Investment Officer
00:01:54 - Unexpected Entry into Cannabis
00:02:16 - Transition from Newspaper to Cannabis
00:02:38 - A Text Message That Changed Everything
00:03:09 - Analyzing the Cannabis Industry's Potential
00:03:30 - Joining Cresco Labs
00:04:01 - Learning the Cannabis Ropes
00:04:12 - Moving to Verano
00:04:34 - Verano's Stage When Aaron Joined
00:04:48 - Verano's Late Public Market Entry
00:05:30 - Preparing Verano for Public Listing
00:06:34 - Aaron's Multifaceted Role at Verano
00:06:59 - Readying for U.S. Capital Markets
00:07:54 - Involvement in M&A and Capital Markets
00:08:47 - Verano's Scale and Operations
00:09:40 - The Role of a Chief Investment Officer
00:09:50 - Verano's Current Business Scale
00:12:04 - The Opportunity Post-Rescheduling
00:12:29 - Anticipating DEA's Confirmation
00:13:17 - Political Landscape and Cannabis
00:13:50 - The Impact of Cannabis Legalization
00:14:15 - The Frustration with Political Obstacles
00:14:25 - The Potential of Rescheduling
00:15:06 - Advocating for Cannabis in D.C.
00:15:38 - The Misconceptions and Education Gap
00:16:30 - The Absurdity of Political Opposition
00:16:59 - The Future of Cannabis Legislation
00:17:49 - Personal Stories and Political Influence
00:18:11 - The Economic Impact of Cannabis
00:19:08 - The Ripple Effect of Dispensary Spending
00:20:02 - Conversations with Cory Booker
00:20:37 - The Generational Divide in Cannabis Perception
00:21:19 - Aaron's Personal Connection to Cannabis
00:22:00 - Changing Family Perceptions on Cannabis
00:22:47 - The Challenges of Cannabis Advertising
00:23:28 - Business Strategy Post-Rescheduling
00:24:10 - Verano's Financial Management
00:24:53 - Preparing for Market Changes
00:25:24 - Potential Growth in Key States
00:26:06 - Verano's Expansion Plans
00:26:38 - Uplisting and Capital Market Readiness
00:27:15 - The Impact of Rescheduling on Operations
00:27:59 - The Future of Cannabis Banking and Advertising
00:28:48 - The Need for Cannabis Education
00:29:28 - Aaron's Motivation in the Cannabis Industry
00:29:54 - The Broader Impact of Cannabis Legalization
00:30:25 - The Excitement of Working in Cannabis
00:30:58 - The Dynamic Nature of the Cannabis Industry
00:31:35 - The Opportunity to Influence the Industry
00:32:09 - How to Follow Aaron and Verano
Karson Humiston: and welcome back. We are back for another episode of the Proud to Work in Cannabis podcast. Can't believe we are already over halfway through February. This is an episode Aaron Miles, the chief investment officer at Verano and I have been trying to get on the books for a while. We tried to do it at MJBiz and unfortunately I think, Aaron, you may have gotten sick or something, but we couldn't do it, and then we had to reschedule. So anyway, we're finally here, and I'm so happy to be here with you, Aaron. Zooming in from Chicago, how are you today?
Aaron Miles: I'm doing well. Yes, it has been quite the journey to get to this point, and saying sick probably underestimates what we all went through as a company. It was probably the plague. I mean, it was, you know, to get you out of MJBiz, it has to be something pretty serious, you know, to get you away from Vegas. But I'm really excited to be here.
Karson Humiston: You know, it's funny that you say that, because after MJBiz, I feel like I got the plague, and it ended up being COVID. But I feel like a lot of people at MJBiz truly went down for the count at the end. So you might have just been on the earlier end of it, or you might have brought it for everybody else. I might have brought it.
Aaron Miles: Maybe I was, yeah, I was patient zero this year. And it's a requirement to get COVID at MJBiz, right? But, you know, here we are.
Karson Humiston: So what MJBiz conference was that for you? Like, how many have you been to during the December 2023 show.
Aaron Miles: So I started in November of 2018. So that would have been 1819. I think it was five, number five for me. Yeah, I mean, I know you're a veteran. So this has been, how many was it for you?
Karson Humiston: So my first one was in 2016. So you only beat me by two. I mean, it was a lot at some point. I feel like we're going to stop counting, but that brings me to my next question. There's so much that we want to dig in on today with you as the chief investment officer at one of the top MSOs. There's so much going on in the industry now, but before we get into the business side and more tactical and outlook on the space. I would love to learn more about what drew you to the cannabis industry. What were you doing before cannabis and before you joined Team Verano in 2018?
Aaron Miles: Yeah, it was a random text message that got me into cannabis. And the irony of the situation is I didn't know the difference between Indica and Sativa before actually getting into cannabis. My wife and I, so I was transitioning out of another job. I worked for a newspaper, a publicly traded newspaper, and I was, I ran capital markets and treasury, and they were kind of eliminating a lot of roles in the C-suite. So I was out in the market looking, and I was going to take a job at Pier One Imports down in Fort Worth, Texas. And I was going to be the heir apparent to the CFO role. Lady Nancy Welsh was going to, you know, groom me, and I was going to take over after two years. Went to Italy. I was in Cinque Terre with my wife. It was my 40th birthday. I was drinking wine like beer. So you can imagine I was feeling pretty good. And I literally got this random text message. Heard about your situation. Would you ever consider taking a cannabis company public? And so it was a person that worked at Cresco Labs at the time. And I looked at my phone and I said, there's no way. And I put it down. I said I would go work for Pier 1 Imports. And then I woke up the next morning and I started to like you know, the the wine haze wore off. And I started to look at, you know, kind of what the dynamic of the industry was like. And I'm like, wait a minute, you know, at the time, the projections were 80 billion by 2030. And I'm like, this can't be real. And so when you really start to dig in, you start to dive into the numbers and the opportunity, I said, what the hell, you know, if my offer letter with Pure One hadn't come in, by the time I get back from my vacation, I will go through with the interview. And I did. And I was impressed with, you know, Charlie and Joe Caltabiano at the time and the Cresco guys. And I said, listen, I'm going to I'm going to give this a shot. Corporate's always going to be there. Right. I mean, these opportunities to be a part of a space that is so dynamic and changing and you get to really put your mark on this industry. It was just too good to pass up. And so I, you know, let me say, you know, I now know the difference between Amica and Sativa. So we're good on that front. And we're good there. We're good there. The transition into Verano, I have nothing but amazing things to say about Cresco. They're obviously a tier one operator as well. I knew the former CFO at Verano, Brian Ward, and he pinged me to have coffee and coffee turned into a much larger opportunity for me to wear a lot of different hats and put an O in my title. So here I am and couldn't be happier. There's certain days where you're like, what the hell did I get myself into? But you just kind of get used to that. Now, I don't know what I would do if I had to go back to normal corporate. I don't think I could handle it.
Karson Humiston: So can you describe, at the time that you joined Verano, the stage of the company and where they were, just to give people a frame of reference of, you know, it doesn't seem like that long ago, but things change dramatically in cannabis businesses.
Aaron Miles: Yeah, so they were a late comer to the public markets. The rush was, you know, MedMed kind of led the charge with that reverse takeover transaction model. in June of 2018. And then, you know, Cura, Cresco, Anchorage, I mean, you name it, everybody kind of followed suit later in 2018. Brano was going to get acquired by Harvest. That deal fell through. And so then their GO Public plans kind of fell through. So when I started, it was September of 2020. And they were probably five months away from going public, which we ended up, you know, launching on the CSE at the time in February of 21. So they were in the literally the stages of trying to raise capital, trying to get all their ducks in a row for going public. And you're trying to build framework around a publicly traded corporation. It's a lot different, right, than being a private. Being private is tremendously easy in comparison to being a public company. So I was brought into, you know, and it was it was interesting. And I would say this is really where my background came into play well is at Cresco. literally, we were like, what does the CSE stand for? Like, I've never traded in Canada, like, you know, what's an RTO? Like, what do you know, so you stay, but you learn it. And then I was able to take that knowledge and, you know, really cut off a lot of, you know, downtime, I would say, because of just some of the mistakes that we made, you know, going public, when we're at Cresco. But yeah, so I had five months before going public. And, you know, generally, you would plan to go public for about a year and a half to two years. So it is it's a heavy undertaking. So we, it was, you know, and I came in, and I was running investor relations, I got involved in M&A, I got, I mean, I was running communications, I was, you know, so, you know, I was sweeping floors, I was, you know, literally anything you could do, you know, just to keep the company moving forward to do and, but yeah, and here we are, so.
Karson Humiston: So to give some folks, it's always interesting. It's a proud to work in cannabis podcast. We bring on all kinds of different people with all kinds of different jobs, people who might be a little bit less familiar with chief investment officer. What, what is your job entail? I, you just said you, you know, of course you're doing a little bit of everything, particularly five years ago, but in general today, what is the day in the life of Aaron miles?
Aaron Miles: Yeah. So I would say, you know, the number one goal I have on a daily basis to make sure that we're prepared for the U.S. capital markets. Right. Like we can't uplist yet. Institutional dollars aren't flowing in, but we have to be ready once those opportunities present themselves. So, you know, we we just uplisted or upgraded our listing to the SIBO last October. And the key behind that was, you know, we're now a senior exchange listed company. And so we meet all the requirements of listing in the U.S. So if the opportunity presents itself and we can uplift very quickly into one of the U.S. exchanges, we're 97, 95, 97 percent retail traded. But so when the big institutional dollars come in, you're going to want to help them do their due diligence and make sure their compliance departments are comfortable investing in the space. So that's probably the number one goal I have. But, you know, I play a massive role in the M&A of the company. There hasn't been any deals announced. in this space. And I think it's just a lot of, you know, due to a lot of the compression in the stock markets. But that doesn't mean that the due diligence and the work isn't being done. You know, we've said on every earnings call that we're always going to continue to evaluate our opportunities, but we're also going to continue to be hyper selective and patient about what those opportunities would look like. Anything capital markets. So I get involved in Treasury, anything equity related I would get involved with. You know, I technically oversee, you know, the communications department, but, you know, Steve Mazzacca and Grace Bondi, you know, they report into me, but do a fantastic job of really running that department. I oversee investor relations, but, you know, another shout out to Juliana Patera. She's our VP of IR, who does a tremendous job, you know, with a lot of the day to day, just keeping that, you know, you know, flowing, I guess, in the direction that it needs to go into. So overseeing those departments is a big role, but then also being an officer of the company. And again, you know, you think about this, like, you know, we converted from IFRS to GAAP. So I think people just look at that as kind of like a single line item of like, okay, they converted from IFRS to GAAP. But the internal structure, and you know, that's from your recruiting, you know, the internal structure that you have to transform your business on, you know, you're just making sure that you're not too heavy, you know, from a from a, you know, employee perspective, that you have the right talent in place that as things progress, and as new opportunities come in, that you are able to take advantage of those as well. And so, you know, I'm definitely a part of, you know, the strategy of the company and, you know, definitely part of kind of overseeing a lot of the management movements that we would have. So, but yeah, it's, and again, media wise, I get on these, I, you know, we'll talk to reporters. I mean, I'm just, my job is to get more interest into the company in the space and make sure that we can take advantage of the capital markets. So.
Karson Humiston: Today, Verano, what is the scale of Verano? How many states are you operating in? How many stores? How many employees? To give folks a perspective on where the business is today.
Aaron Miles: 3,700 plus employees across 13 states. We're vertically integrated in 11, which means we basically have cultivation through retail. And in two states, we're just, you know, retail only. We have a million square feet plus really of cultivation capacity. And that's I think encompassing 12 cultivation facilities, 138 dispensaries. We just opened up our 18th in Pennsylvania. We're maxed out really in all the states that have like the restrictions on the amount of dispensaries that you can have are maxed out minus Massachusetts. We could still add a third store there if we wanted to. But yeah, so I mean, we have, you know, massive presence in Illinois, New Jersey, Florida, PA. I would encourage anybody listening to this to go look at our last earnings report. We actually were the first company to break out state by state level revenue to really show the breadth of, you know, what we're able to do. And we're very balanced across our portfolio. So we're not heavy in one state versus another. But, you know, started in Illinois and it's really progressed through, you know, organic and inorganic activity to get to the point that we're at now. 2020, what would that be? Two, we did $879 million. of revenue. Last quarter, we did $241 million. Obviously, we haven't reported Q4 yet. Industry-leading margins generally have put into the low to mid-30s from a margin perspective. But more importantly, we guided to $72 to $76 million of free cash flow. So people can talk about the top line, you know, we can go out and I could acquire a bunch of companies and just defund the top line. But after, you know, we paid $100 million in taxes through Q3, you know, we projected out a $50 million tax payment in Q4. Our acquisitions considerations payable line, which is cash you pay out after acquisitions, you know, we brought that balance down to $2 million. So we're meeting all of our cash obligations, we're investing in cap bags, and we have industry leading free cash flow at $72 to $76 million, at least from a guidance perspective.
Karson Humiston: Which is incredible and brings me back to my next point around the opportunity post rescheduling. So you mentioned you had this $100 million tax bill. Our listeners are very familiar with 280E. How are you feeling about rescheduling? I know for me, every day I wake up and I open Twitter X, and I wait to see if the DEA has confirmed the HHS's recommendation. So I'm sure you have investors. and just people in general calling you personally every day about this, you know, what are you saying to them?
Aaron Miles: You know, you're hopeful. I think, you know, where the hope comes in is that, you know, we were hanging our hat on the safe banking route for so long. Right. And, you know, Congress, you know, can't, you know, get out of the way of tripping over its own feet. And if one side, you know, recommends something, the other side is just going to shoot it down. You know, heaven forbid we do what's in the best interest of our country and the people that live in this country and pay those folks to make sure we're taken care of. But the reason this feels different is the administration is now kind of leading the charge. And Biden, if you look at the polls, you know, I'm going to keep politics aside. You know, being being down in the polls is maybe a scary, scary thing to think about.
Karson Humiston: But I will keep politics aside. I think that most people listening can agree Biden needs the help he can get.
Aaron Miles: He needs all the help he can get. And you have a former president that could truly get elected from prison. And it's it's kind of funny that I know that's that's my thoughts exactly. So he needs this to go through. And this is a slam dunk. If you actually put the pieces of what this could do for the country. Politics aside, it's the right thing to do. It's jobs. It's safety. The cartel has been shown to put less cannabis across the border the more states start to legalize. And so you start to look at the mechanics. Where's the concern? We spend a lot of time in DC, and we'll ask that question. What's the concern with pushing cannabis to a legal state? Well, banking and anti-money laundering. And I'm like, but you understand the system the way it's set up now. You're creating the problem and we're asking for the solution. How many industries come and talk to you and say, we want more regulation. We want to just be treated like a normal company. I'm positive on the fact of the administration as all the reason in the world to get this done. And I would say from a timing perspective, I don't think the DEA can put a stamp of approval right before the ballots go out in October, November. I think it needs to get done earlier. I think there's a reason that the HHS recommendation went out when it did. We were hearing that it's almost working from the back forward where they understand where the dates are going to come in for a potential Garland memo and the DEA recommendation. I would say what I'm hearing, and this is always subject to change, but maybe ahead of a State of the Union address.
Karson Humiston: That's what I've been hearing, too. I guess for us, if we think about it, it does make sense. Why would we do it last year when people have short-term memory? You want to do it as close as possible. It's funny that you said that about going to D.C. We have our jobs report, which I know you guys have been big contributors on, but we go down to D.C. and we're meeting with representatives from the various states and I'll pull up their state and I'll show them, hey, in California, do you know there's 83,593 jobs? But then I show them how many there could be with proper legislation and people, what is there possibly to argue about? Because by the way, there's… One of the things I was… And I think that for people listening, if you ever spend time with politicians, to me, they seem to be able to understand stories and real world examples. So I'll give them an example of You know, these are legal jobs, but then there's also illegal jobs and illegal operators. And while we don't work with them, I know people that do, and they just get paid in straight up cash. And there's still, people are still getting paid and they're getting paid in cash, but guess who's not collecting any of that revenue. You, Mr. Senator, right. It's just like the fact. So it's like, it's very shocking to me when people. don't want to do this. So in your day-to-day exchange with people, and I would imagine, like, similar to me, most people want to go here, but do you ever get pushback on why not do this?
Aaron Miles: It's literally for the dumbest reasons you'll ever hear. Like, let's get Pete Sessions back out there to talk about cannabis psychosis. I mean, the guy's an absolute moron. So it's like, you start to think about OK, and that's actually a good point to make here, too, is if Pete Sessions is focusing on this, obviously he was trying to, you know, put cannabis companies out of business and he still wants to be relevant in this space. But you have Nikki Haley talking about cannabis. You have, you know, other politicians talking about cannabis that haven't talked about it before, which shows you that it's polling well in D.C. Right. And so you need to play to almost like what polls well, you know, in the political environment. And, and right now cannabis does. And I don't think what people understand it's, it's the jobs is that's a great perspective to look at. But 280E going away is a massive hit, right? Like for us alone, we've projected it out, you know, 85 to $100 million just dollars dropping to our bottom line once 280E goes away. So now look at all the cannabis companies take 280E away and look at the hole that the government's going to have to fill in.
Karson Humiston: I thought I read something from Bo Whitney's report. I'll go back and fact check this and we can edit it, but I think it was like $3.8 billion spent in 280E.
Aaron Miles: I think that would be an absolute fair assessment without actually looking at the figures. But now, look, let's just think about this in a different way. It's you know, when I go and talk to the exchanges, I can't tell them, hey, you need to list this because it's fair. It's like, think about what listing cannabis companies in the US could do for your business. I mean, COVID destroyed the exchanges like IPO proceeds were massively down in comparison to the year before COVID hit. Well, now you have 50 plus companies that could go public in the U.S. At a bare minimum, we're going to be paying 100 grand, right, in listing fees. So you do the math on that and then think about a company paying five to ten million dollars in legal and banking fees to go public in the U.S. Well, that's money that's flowing into the U.S. And then you start to think about the expansion of the legal market. So your jobs report and the tax dollars that can come back in. But there's a there's a big key here, which is a concept called economic value add. Right. So for every dollar that's spent in a dispensary, There are studies that have shown that $2.50 is spent in the outlying area. So like going to a CVS or using public transportation or, you know, going to Starbucks.
Karson Humiston: Oh, can you say that one more time?
Aaron Miles: Dollars spent in a dispensary. There have been studies that have been shown, MJBiz actually highlighted in one of their fact books, that there's $2.50 spent in the outlying area. So it's an economic value add. So it's not just jobs and taxation and more employees, it's also booming for the economy of the surrounding areas.
Karson Humiston: You go to a dispensary, afterwards you get lunch next door.
Aaron Miles: You get lunch, you get on the train. Because these dispensaries are drawing people into the area. And there are studies that have been shown, and I don't have a specific one that I can put off the top of my head, but that have shown that areas get safer when dispensaries actually come into the neighborhood. You know, I think the concerns are it's easy to watch like El Chapo Guzman documentary and be like, oh, my God, we can't have drugs in our community. But, you know, we met I guess this is a good point to make here is we met with Cory Booker and I got to talk to him for about 15 minutes. And he was telling me, he said, you know, Aaron, this isn't this isn't a Democrat versus Republican thing all the time. It's an age thing. Right. So you can go talk to an 80 year old Democrat. We're going to be like, oh, yeah, cannabis. I don't want to end up doing heroin. And you're like, you probably won't if you eat a sleep gummy and end up shooting up heroin on a nightly basis. You may, I don't know, but you know, I'm pretty sure, uh, you know, one of our, our, I guess one positive is an age.
Karson Humiston: I think that's really great point. It's an age thing. We want this to happen ASAP, but we know that the oldies are going to die off sooner than later. And people around our age are, um, very pro.
Aaron Miles: Well, you know, what's interesting though. So like I have, You know, I grew up in a conservative family, like, you know, uncles in northern Michigan who, you know, are very much like, oh, my God, Aaron's working in cannabis. Like, let's all drop to our knees and say a prayer for him. And, you know, but what's interesting is so personal story. And this is what really, you know, where the passion comes behind cannabis is. And everyone has a story. Everyone knows somebody, you know, who could have benefited from cannabis. But my uncle, David, was an army ranger, hurt his back, got discharged from the army. You know, the equation I'm setting up here. you know, put on opiates, addicted to opiates, prescription taken away. And he died at 48. He was smoking crack out of a Brillo pad because he was trying to numb the pain. And so when I got into cannabis, everyone said, well, you're basically, you know, disrespecting your uncle David for what he went through because you're getting into the drug space. And I said, it's not drugs, it's medicine. And I said, would you go through the detail over how, you know, cannabis doesn't attach to any vital organ receptors, how it's virtually impossible to OB on it. And yeah, Uncle David may have been a pothead, but would you rather be a pothead and alive than actually dead from, you know, being addicted to opiates? And now that the story is starting to resonate, I have certain family members who are like, can you give me some more balm for my shoulder? Can I get this for sleep? So I think the biggest hindrance we have as an industry is really the lack of ability to educate and advertise, because when you think about that, I thought the same thing. I mean, I wasn't a cannabis user. I was, you know, I only drank 20 beers a night in college. I never smoked weed. Right. So it's like, you know, I wasn't a pothead, you know, but but what's funny is, is that, you know, I would always think I would liken all the drugs to like the same bucket. And when you actually start to look at some of the benefits over either cannabis or maybe some of the other drugs that are being researched to help with mental illness, there's a massive miss from us just being able to educate. Like advertising, I get it. If you don't want us to advertise, that's one thing, but education should be absolutely allowed because this can save people's lives.
Karson Humiston: Completely. Yeah. So switching gears a little bit, rescheduling happens. How are you guys thinking about your business? You suddenly have a hundred grand that flows directly to the bottom line. I've been very curious and speaking to people on the podcast and just our customers in general of how do you think about it. You guys are in a good position where it doesn't sound like you have back taxes. I've been speaking to a lot of our of our customers who said the first thing they have to take care of is their back taxes before they can really move into growth mode. But it sounds like you're one of the fortunate companies who is not in that position. So I'm really curious how Verano thinks about a world without 280E and how you change the way you're operating, if at all.
Aaron Miles: Yeah, we did. And so we have deferred taxes. You know, we do carry a balance, but we keep it, you know, manageable. But, you know, and at the time, I don't think, you know, people understood really, you know, the deferral of taxes and the penalties and fees and what the costs were, it was way less than what you could get from a credit facility. So there's some people who are deferring because, you know, they need to keep the lights on. And there were companies like us that, you know, maybe saw an opportunity to potentially defer and, you know, but we but we do manage to our taxes. So I would say right now, there's a few areas. And I guess for starters, And this isn't what you're implying, but like we don't run our business based off of any, you know, assumption of federal moves. Right. You know, we've always been kind of really good at staying a step ahead of moves. So New Jersey turning on or Illinois turning on. So like we've we're generating the amount of back where we are just the way that we have the business built. Now, it depends on what rescheduling and opportunities that are going to be available. I think it's going to be a little bit of time for uplisting. you know, new credit facilities, like, you know, this isn't going to be a light switch approach. And my fear is that you're going to see this, you know, massive rush into the space, and everyone's going to be so excited about, oh, my God, you know, the DEA just talked about, you know, stamp stamp approval for rescheduling. But in reality, then you have to get all these compliance departments in place. So I think near term, for us, we would probably, you know, look to strengthen the balance sheet, we have some optionality on Our term loan, $350 million, expires in October of 26. But we have a 1% prepayment penalty on the first $100 million, which is phenomenal for the space. So we will probably look to maybe manage through some of that, which we've been very vocal about on our calls. You also have states potentially moving, right? DeSantis, who, of course, was anti-cannabis, even though the medical program was built under his purview. And now he's like, I could see it being on the ballot. Well, he knows every judge in the state of Florida. You know if he's saying it then you know there's probably going to be some movement there. So right now we have two cultivation facilities in Florida one in Apollo Beach by Tampa one up by Jacksonville and in Polatka. And we have 70 I think four dispensaries in Florida. And so what you grow you have to sell through your dispensaries. But if you had adult use and you had the amount of tourism that happens in Florida We definitely need to ramp up expansion in capacity there. So those would be dollars spent there. You know, PA in Ohio. Obviously, Ohio is a little bit further along than PA. So you could see us, you know, maybe investing some dollars there. So I think strengthen the balance sheet and build out from a CapEx perspective in the markets that make sense would probably be the near term focus. Does M&A start to ramp up? You don't know, right? So we would probably look, you know, a little bit heavier into the M&A world. And then really the U.S. capital markets would be the biggest the biggest component that I think, you know, we could continue to try to stay ahead of. And, you know, the move that we made to the CBO, basically NEO exchanges in Canada, you know, the CBOE now branded CBO in Chicago was more known for options than it was equity. you know, straight up corporate equity, but they launched a US equities business and bought the NEO exchange. So there's a linkage between the US and the Canadian exchanges, which if I were to, you know, have the ability to list on SIBO US, we could do it very quickly because we're already in the network. So we're happy with where we're at. But, you know, and again, you start to look at like, you know, what does rescheduling mean? Can we use credit cards? Can we advertise? Because if we start to advertise, then we're going to… Yeah, I was going to ask, do you think that rescheduling changes that?
Karson Humiston: Or do you think then rescheduling is a step towards safe, and then with safe, can we get a normal… I mean, we are an ancillary company, and so we're much less restrictive than you all are, but I mean… We've been dropped by every bank, every credit card. Personally, I was trying to buy a house and they were like, you're a cannabis company. You can't get a mortgage. You would have to pay with cash. It's just crazy. Just pay your taxes and there's your mortgage done. Exactly. I can see you showing up to your employee's house with a bag of coins and being like,
Aaron Miles: There's your paycheck for the week because you know, ADP dropped you guys. But it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun to operate in this space. Because I mean, to your point, I mean, they're like, even like from an auditing perspective, like we can't use the big four, you know, your transfer agent, you know, you're not using computer share, you know, like, you're not using ADP, you're not like, so it's just like, you go down the list of, you know, if you're just a start a normal company in the US, it's hard enough to do that on its own. And then you layer in everything else we have to face. But I would say there's a strong possibility. I mean, these companies are out to make money and they see, you know, they need new business. And so, you know, I think banks are trying to, you know, get ahead of it, but their compliance departments are kind of handcuffing them. But I would say advertising is probably sooner rather than later, you know, especially huge. Yeah, which would be huge because then you're you're starting to get into the mainstream a little bit more. But that's where that education piece can be. You know, I think you'd almost have to start a whole campaign in I'm not a marketing guy, so this is not the marketing slogan, but don't be afraid of cannabis. We all had that hot brownie experience in college where you wake up on the floor and you're like, whoa, I don't remember being here because it wasn't properly dosed. And now this is such a tried and true industry where people shouldn't be afraid of it because you have entry points for every type of consumer out there.
Karson Humiston: Well, this whole conversation has gone by so quickly. I'm realizing we're coming up to the tail end, but the, my, my final question for you is this podcast is called the proud to work in cannabis podcast and everybody has a story and a reason as to what keeps them here, what keeps them super excited, keeps them coming out of, you know, getting out of bed every single day. You're clearly just as excited today as you were in 2018. So Aaron, why are you proud to work in cannabis?
Aaron Miles: It's, it's because of everything that we, have accomplished as an industry and what we're going to continue to do once the doors start to open, you know, with legislation. And, you know, it's easy to look at the corporation and say, hey, you know, we've done really well as a company. But, you know, the people who have been disadvantaged by cannabis, people who are incarcerated for cannabis only offenses, you know, the communities that have been mistreated because of cannabis related offenses, it's like, we have an ability to invest back in these communities, which we have. And so I think what gets me really excited is that you're gonna start to see that tide start to shift where cannabis is more accepted and maybe the impact on certain communities starts to lessen. So I think that keeps me excited. And then really just the whole medicinal aspect from a research perspective, right? You think about the story I just told you about my uncle, like if we can actually do some PTSD research or different types of researches around cancer or pain management, You know, it's like we're a part of something that can be tremendously beneficial to not only the United States, but across the globe. And to be able to help build, you know, one of the leaders in that space with Verano and, you know, the ZenLeap dispensaries, Move dispensaries and all our product lines. it's exciting to be a part of that. You know, I could go back to corporate. I, you know, you wouldn't be able to wear a hoodie and shave my head and do everything else.
Karson Humiston: You know, like, you know, it's keeping us, it's keeping us both young, keeping us both young.
Aaron Miles: And I do think I have undiagnosed ADD. So I think cannabis works really well for me. Cause I'll have a list of everything I need to get done in a day. And then that never happens. Then I do 500 other things, but, But I would just say, you know, the train schedule, the monotony of doing the same thing over and over again, because that's how some corporations have been built, just doesn't work for me. And I would say, you know, if you really want to be a part of something, like, it doesn't matter what level you're at, you know, you can come in as an entry level person, you can be in the C suite, you have an ability to either work on a different, you know, ad campaign, you know, the product development, you know, help get a company listed. I mean, you know, you can have the ability to put your mark on this industry. And so I think that's what keeps me here is just, you know, you got to see it through to the finish line. And it's just exciting because it's like the unknown every day. And that can be scary. But it can also be tremendously rewarding as well.
Karson Humiston: Couldn't agree more. Well, Aaron, it was so much fun doing this episode. Thank you very much for coming on. If people want to follow you, follow Verano, get in touch. Where do people find you and Verano?
Aaron Miles: So Verano.com. You can go to investors.Verano.com. Dispensaries are, you know, Zen Leaf dispensaries. And that's every state outside of Florida, which is branded MOVE, M-U-V. Uh, you know, and then obviously earnings coming up on February 29th. I don't know when this podcast is going to come out, but, uh, you know, tune into that. And then, um, I do have a small presence on Twitter. I, I, I tweet very carefully, uh, on occasion, but, uh, it's just my name, uh, and then Verano, but, uh, you know, again, thank you so much for having us on, you know, having me on and, and, uh, we really appreciate the time.